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  #16  
Old 10-08-2001, 03:07 PM
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If you don't like the news...just wait an hour or so...

Hey Steve,
Regarding your earlier post on the strange handling of the anthrax case...check this out:

http://home.netscape.com/ex/shak/new...08anthrax.html

Don
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Last edited by SVXphile; 10-08-2001 at 03:09 PM.
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  #17  
Old 10-08-2001, 03:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sonnyred
I fear the "terrorists" are the least of our worries.

Sonny

"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin, 1759
The people who perpetrated the acts of terrorism on September 11th are hardly the 'least of our worries.'

I, too, wish to defend our freedoms and cringe at the idea of 'giving them up' in the name of safety. But just because some people have suggested it hardly proves that there is a world-wide conspiracy.

To distract us from the real enemies, those who want to shed our blood as 'infidels,' is 'not paying attention.'

We probably have not seen the last act of terrorism on our soil. We can attempt to guard against it, but there is always a way through. The only way to truly defend ourselves it is to eliminate those who have a history of committing such acts, those who aspire to and those who support them.

And that is exactly what our government is doing. I have heard suggestions of 'limiting' freedoms, but they have been just that - the real solution is moving along at a far, far greater pace.
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  #18  
Old 10-08-2001, 03:53 PM
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rights & civil liberties

Sonny, what rights & civil liberties are you refering to? Do you think that freedom has a price?

David
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  #19  
Old 10-08-2001, 06:17 PM
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Speaking of a conspiracy....

Randy,
There is a move underway over on the Yahoo site, to surprise you with a YELLOW SVX. Just thought you should be warned. I have "connections" in various places; remember my initials...
DEA
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  #20  
Old 10-08-2001, 07:21 PM
Ron Mummert Ron Mummert is offline
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Wink Re: Those who about to post...

Quote:
Originally posted by SVXphile
Randy, you are simply in a league apart!

My posts on the other hand, are a towering example of babble... Don
Don, perhaps you & I could be labled The Haranguing Guardians of Babble-on. Ron.
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  #21  
Old 10-08-2001, 07:40 PM
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Re: Speaking of a conspiracy....

Quote:
Originally posted by SVXphile
Randy,
There is a move underway over on the Yahoo site, to surprise you with a YELLOW SVX. Just thought you should be warned. I have "connections" in various places; remember my initials...
DEA
That isn't a conspiracy, that's just a downright dirty dog thing to do. I think I may have a case under the "cruel and unusual punishment" provision.
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  #22  
Old 10-08-2001, 11:39 PM
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Exclamation Re: rights & civil liberties

Quote:
Originally posted by dromano
Sonny, what rights & civil liberties are you refering to? Do you think that freedom has a price?

David
The rights and personal freedoms that I would guess Sonny refers to are likely to be the most basic. The right to bear arms (going, going . . .). The freedom of assembly. The freedom of (not from) religion. Those are right now in joepardy.

And yes, freedom definately has a price. It's paid for with the blood of past and future men and women of honor.

I would like to add that we all, together must petition and strive against those who hazard to take even the most insignificant of those liberties (sometimes our own government). I am a member of the NRA, not because I like to shoot (I've never owned a gun of any kind, and just the thought of handling a loaded gun strikes me with fear), but because they are the sole protector of a right that our (amazingly insightful) founders saw as basic to personal and corporate freedom.

Steve
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  #23  
Old 10-09-2001, 09:30 AM
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Of course I know freedom has a cost. I come from a family that has fought in every war since the civil war... to protect that freedom. Yes, it most definitely has a price. But when the cost IS freedom, what have we become?? How far will each of you go, how much LIBERTY will you sacrafice for "safety"?? That is EXACTLY what Ben Franlkin was saying...

Steve hit in on the head. And what is so serious about this is that that the terrorists represent such a real and genuine threat. (NO QUESTION about that) They represent an actual, physical, threat to our people, and our way of life. That means we HAVE to do what we have to do to stop them. The question becomes, can we stop terrorism, and maintain the freedoms, that are such basic tennants of this country? If their actions cause us to become a fortress-nation, w\o the benefit of the Bill of Rights, etc., well, they have done what they Imperial Japanse, The Nazi's, the Soviets, etc., etc. COUNLD NEVER MANAGE. Our FREEDOM is EXACTLY what is at stake here. That freedom is what makes the US so unique in history, and that is what must be guarded. It must be guarded from the outside (obviously), but it also must be guarded from the inside. If we are "safe" (Come on... IS there such a thing on this planet??) but we become a database nation, where everything you say or do, is monitored (carnivore? eschelon?) everyone is cataloged for easy cross-referencing... (face scans at the superbowl last year? etc., etc.), if we allow little things like the 2nd and 4th amendment, to fall by the wayside... If it evolves to the point where there IS no concept of individual rights or privacy... (and I grant you that is NOT the case today, but what sorta visionary do you have to be to see THAT handwriting on the wall, and the technology is already there to do it... ) well, you can very easily see where its goin. And if it is deemed, by govt., and society, that is what we must do to maintain our safety... then what have we become?

The only two ways to get Americans to part with Freedom are SAFETY AND CONVENIENCE. No one has ever managed to TAKE it away from us. Yet... but some one is trying again.

Remember... the freedoms that we enjoy are guarded by the Constitution and the BOR... they are there to protect you from your government. They were written by people who KNEW tyranny and opression... (and human nature, where power was concerned) knew if for real. The world has ALWAYS been a dangerous place, and we struck a very fine balance for 200+ years. I just pray we can maintain that balance in the face of this new threat.

The bottom line is... being an American is not just about kickin other countries, butts when they mess with us. Its sorta like the oath of office the President must take.... defending the Const. against enemies, foreign and domestic. If we defeat the terrorists, but in the process, loose the very freedoms that MAKE America... well, what have we have won? We have to defend the CONSTUTION, 24x7, from all comers... whether they are well meaning, tyrannical, or outsiders bent on our destruction.

Generally, I love a nice little, spirited, political debate... But this deal is a little different. Bioengineered Anthrax, has a tendency to temper my mood. I just pray that our leaders, make the right calls, they are ON, man, they are making history... And I hope and pray that we can raise the stakes on terrorists, to the point that we put them totally out of business. And maybe we can do that and maintain our way of life, with only minor, reasonable, concessions to privacy and freedom, etc. I just think that anyone that is engaged enough to read this and participate in this discussion, HAS to play Devils Advocate, and stay keenly aware of the freedoms (won in blood) that we give away... We all have a duty to protect the constitution, from ALL assaults on it.

Fellas, you wont hear this alot... I SURE HOPE IM WRONG about how its goin! I would LOVE to have this discussion (and the FREEDOM to have it w\o Big Brother) in 10 years and you all tell me I was a complete alarmist. I just think that we must all keep our eyes open to the possibility, remember, one of the prices of freedom is vigilence.

I'll just say, God bless us all, and keep us strong and united.

Pray for PEACE.

sonny
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  #24  
Old 10-09-2001, 10:30 AM
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I'm old enoughto remember the tail end of WW2. Rationing was a very big deal. You could purchase limited amounts of what the 'government' deemed 'critical' items like gasoline, sugar, tires, remember steel pennys?, copper was for bullets. Rounding up of ethnic groups.
My point is: Except for the ethnic groups that were "encamped" no one in my life felt they were giving up freedoms. There were hardships, life was not "good". Seems to me we are better now for whatever happened then. A time of crisis is accompanied by crisis appropriate actions.
Seldom do the actions please all. We can't do nothing. Constant change.
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  #25  
Old 10-10-2001, 01:16 PM
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<Don, perhaps you & I could be labled The Haranguing Guardians of Babble-on. Ron.>

Points. You got some major points on your card with that one. Yep.... Don
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  #26  
Old 10-10-2001, 01:29 PM
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Re: Re: Those who about to post...

Quote:
Originally posted by Ron Mummert


Don, perhaps you & I could be labled The Haranguing Guardians of Babble-on. Ron.
Very good, Ron, very good indeed.
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  #27  
Old 10-10-2001, 07:35 PM
Ron Mummert Ron Mummert is offline
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Cool Re: Re: Re: Those who about to post...

Quote:
Originally posted by svxter


Very good, Ron, very good indeed.
Uhhhh... Thank yuh. Thank yuh very much.
Crash!!!! (sound of stage collapsing)
Ron.
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