Tell Me This Isnt a Transmission Problem

[Wikedjuggalo]

Originally Posted by NiftySVX

The proper method of flushing won't disturb the slight amount of metal on the pan magnet, which yes is normal because of the planetary gearsets. Because the machine just goes in place of the cooler and simply lets the pump run the old fluid out and puts an equal amount of new fluid in. there isn't any "pressure" involved. However, if the hoses are then hooked up to a car with a filter in the opposite direction they came off, that's a problem.

We don't know what they did but it is safe to assume something happened if only after flushing this problems arises? I not trying to argue but we are merely assuming that the "technician" was thorough with the job. If the lines were crossed then he is going to have an issue. I am not a mechanic nor claim to be but could the person back flushed everything causing an issue? I think he needs to have a transmission shop look at this then if evidence shows it was caused by the shop, have a nice talk with them.

[NiftySVX]

Originally Posted by Wikedjuggalo

We don't know what they did but it is safe to assume something happened if only after flushing this problems arises? I not trying to argue but we are merely assuming that the "technician" was thorough with the job. If the lines were crossed then he is going to have an issue. I am not a mechanic nor claim to be but could the person back flushed everything causing an issue? I think he needs to have a transmission shop look at this then if evidence shows it was caused by the shop, have a nice talk with them.

Not really. If the fluid is overfilled that is one issue. If the cooler is too restrictive this is another issue. Depends on who overfilled it. If they did it when they flushed it, or if it was done when the cooler and filter were installed.

The flush is not a "backflush". There is no difference between flushing the car and idling the car, except that the machine collects the dirty fluid from the output line on the cooler circuit and replaces it with equal amounts and pressure of new fluid on the cooler return line.

It is possible the person who did it overfilled it in this process, if it is some random, cheaply priced shop they likely have an old machine that doesn't work well, and someone they pulled of the street working on it. You would not believe the people working in some of these places. They probably know less about transmissions than most; That's why these places are cheaper. THE FINAL STEP IN A TRANS FLUSH PROCEDURE IS TO CHECK FLUID LEVEL. No one I know and consider competent that performs this service would skip or be unaware of this step. This is why I think the shop should be held liable. If I overfilled your trans and you came back with a trans problem, it would get fixed on the shop to your satisfaction. Again, this is why I chose to move from an independent to a dealership.

Our machine at work is state of the art, and there is a rep that comes by weekly to check its operation. If we ever thought there was a problem with the machine, or it was not in perfect condition, it would be replaced in a matter of hours. This is how it works at dealerships.

Our dealership gets vehicles towed in all the time, sometimes repairable easily due to their poor service practices and sometimes requiring very costly repairs due to their ignorance or use of an incompatible fluid or part. We used to see this alot when toyota changed fluids.

I would be interested to know what kind of shop did the work.

In summary, yes if it was a not dealership or a quality independent shop, then it is more than possible they messed it up. If it is a dealer or a quality shop, it is relatively unlikely. I have done thousands and thousands of trans flushes in the past 10 years and never once had a problem.

[Wikedjuggalo]

Originally Posted by NiftySVX

Not really. If the fluid is overfilled that is one issue. If the cooler is too restrictive this is another issue. Depends on who overfilled it. If they did it when they flushed it, or if it was done when the cooler and filter were installed.

The flush is not a "backflush". There is no difference between flushing the car and idling the car, except that the machine collects the dirty fluid from the output line on the cooler circuit and replaces it with equal amounts and pressure of new fluid on the cooler return line.

It is possible the person who did it overfilled it in this process, if it is some random, cheaply priced shop they likely have an old machine that doesn't work well, and someone they pulled of the street working on it. You would not believe the people working in some of these places. They probably know less about transmissions than most; That's why these places are cheaper. THE FINAL STEP IN A TRANS FLUSH PROCEDURE IS TO CHECK FLUID LEVEL. No one I know and consider competent that performs this service would skip or be unaware of this step. This is why I think the shop should be held liable. If I overfilled your trans and you came back with a trans problem, it would get fixed on the shop to your satisfaction. Again, this is why I chose to move from an independent to a dealership.

Our machine at work is state of the art, and there is a rep that comes by weekly to check its operation. If we ever thought there was a problem with the machine, or it was not in perfect condition, it would be replaced in a matter of hours. This is how it works at dealerships.

Our dealership gets vehicles towed in all the time, sometimes repairable easily due to their poor service practices and sometimes requiring very costly repairs due to their ignorance or use of an incompatible fluid or part. We used to see this alot when toyota changed fluids.

I would be interested to know what kind of shop did the work.

In summary, yes if it was a not dealership or a quality independent shop, then it is more than possible they messed it up. If it is a dealer or a quality shop, it is relatively unlikely. I have done thousands and thousands of trans flushes in the past 10 years and never once had a problem.

I can only go on what information I have. I don't know the inner workings of how the flush works. But I have heard of people who mess this up causing more harm then good. But it sounds like it was a issue that happened at the shop like you said.

[oab_au]

Yes I agree with the overfilling. The problem is that the rotating gear set picks up the oil and splashes it around, this causes a lot of aerating foam to let air into the oil pick-up to drop pressure.
Fingers crossed.

Harvey.

[elemgee]

So, assuming this turns out to be an expensive fix, I'm thinking it might be a good time to replace the transmission with one from a 96 Legacy. Seems like I might be able to do this for less than $2K. I've read some suggestions for a 4.11 transmission and some for the 4.44 transmission, which seems to be the preferred one. So, what do I need to order to get the 4.44 one - any 96 Legacy automatic, or do I need to be more specific (like there are some Legacys with the 2.2 litre 4, and some have the 2.5 litre 4, and its not clear if both use the same tranny)? Sorry if this sounds like a stupid question, but once I get this fixed I dont want to have to keep thinking about when the tranny will fail again.

[Cam]

One important thing to keep in mind is that when changing the front differential gear ratio, the rear diff must be changed to match it. Otherwise your tires will attempt to rotate at different speeds. This is catastrophic for the parts involved. I have never done this on an SVX, but my understanding is this often requires driveshaft modification as well. (shortening of the driveshaft). More information on this can be found here using the search function.

And while 4.11 and 4.44 gears will help your launch time and make you quicker off the line, your engine will be at a higher RPM at cruising speed.

[icingdeath88]

Originally Posted by Cam

And while 4.11 and 4.44 gears will help your launch time and make you quicker off the line, your engine will be at a higher RPM at cruising speed.

Which is why some people prefer the 4.11 to the 4.44, since it won't be at so much higher rpms that way.

[1986nate]

Originally Posted by Cam

One important thing to keep in mind is that when changing the front differential gear ratio, the rear diff must be changed to match it. Otherwise your tires will attempt to rotate at different speeds. This is catastrophic for the parts involved. I have never done this on an SVX, but my understanding is this often requires driveshaft modification as well. (shortening of the driveshaft). More information on this can be found here using the search function.

And while 4.11 and 4.44 gears will help your launch time and make you quicker off the line, your engine will be at a higher RPM at cruising speed.

The driveshaft only needs to be modified for doing a manual swap.
4.11 gears have proven to fail not long after a swap as the gear ratio isn't high enough to overcome the weight, torque, and TCU programming of the SVX.
4.44 gears will actually improve your city mileage by about 2 mpg as it takes less power to get the car moving from a stop while it will decrease on the highway but only by about 1 mpg. Also 4.44 swaps have been proven to hold up for extended periods even with "spirited" driving. Depending on where you live, I can get 4.44 transmissions and rear differential with right around or under 100k for about $500 or slightly less. They can be found in just about any Subaru from 96 to mid-year 98 equipped with a 2.5. Your safest bet is asking around for a transmission from a 97 Legacy Outback, GT, a couple others that I can't think of right now.

[Cam]

Originally Posted by 1986nate

The driveshaft only needs to be modified for doing a manual swap.

This is good to know.

You say that the 4.11's are problematic. Being between the 3.545 and 4.44 gear ratios, I would think that the actual ratio would not be a problem...or is it in the construction of the transmissions?

[1986nate]

Originally Posted by Cam

This is good to know.

You say that the 4.11's are problematic. Being between the 3.545 and 4.44 gear ratios, I would think that the actual ratio would not be a problem...or is it in the construction of the transmissions?

You are correct on that assumption. The SVX transmission is actually superior to other Subaru transmissions from the same era as if they new it needed to be stronger due to the weight and torque of the SVX. The problem with the 4.11 is that the gear ratio isn't enough to overcome the weaker transmission but the 4.44 gearing is high enough that it is able to "help" the transmission work for an extended amount of time. That's the basics of it.

[Cam]

Ahhh, I see. I misunderstood and thought that it was actually the 4.11 ratio that was the problem...thats why I was confused. So LAN's 4.11 build would not have this problem, correct?

[1986nate]

Originally Posted by Cam

Ahhh, I see. I misunderstood and thought that it was actually the 4.11 ratio that was the problem...thats why I was confused. So LAN's 4.11 build would not have this problem, correct?

I don't believe it would. It would depend if he uses the actual SVX gears or if he uses the same gearset from the original 4.11 trans.
If I remember correctly, the SVX transmission is beefed up by using 5 sets of planetaries instead of just 4 which is what other Subie phase1 transmissions use. Someone would have to confirm that as I can't say it as fact... In any case, the SVX transmission was definitely built stronger.

[Cam]

I am done hijacking this thread...for now

Any updates on the transmission or any word from the shop that potentially overfilled it?

[TomsSVX]

Wait, you said you recentyly installed a cooler and filter?? From the comment about the cooler/filter being HOT would lead me to believe whoever installed the filter did so backwards. Most filters have check valves in them to retain fluid in the lines and filter at all times... If the line are reversed from in to out and visa versa it will bring fluid flow to a halt... Easily cooking the transmission in no time due to lack of fluid low internal to the trans and lack of cooling... Sorry

Tom

[elemgee]

The filter is an external filter fitted to the car - not an aftermarket filter, but the one that came with the SVX (so maybe the original owner had it retrofitted. Its in the same spot that the newer tranny filters were located by Subaru). I just disconnected the hoses from the old filter and reconnected them to the new one, taking care to not mix them up.

I installed the cooler, put it in the wheel-well area thats in front of the front drivers side wheel, and cut a small hole in the plastic so it would get some air. Its a B&M cooler, one of the larger ones, but I cant help but wonder if there is some kind of restriction, because it gets really hot, pretty quickly. I wanted to put it in front of the a/c condensor (like I did with my 96), but it wouldnt fit there.

The car has an appt with a transmission shop on Monday (right before my appt with the bank). I'll post whatever they tell me the problem is.