Guns anyone? U.S Carabine cal 30

[MadMaxSvx]

The thing is that someone is selling a "WW2" (in the words of the seller) M1 Garand.
I carefully inspected the carabine and the only words in the steel frame are: "U.S Carabine cal 30"
She (the seller) said that the gun belonged to her brother, who was a soldier in the war for the canadian army.
The asking price is 1000 dollars, is that cheap or not for a supposed original WW2 M1 in mint shape?

[immortal_suby]

That is cheap for a mint condition original. I'd get the serial number and look it up to verify.

[MadMaxSvx]

I looked for serial numbers but none, also the only words are the ones stated in the first post.
The gun looks brand new, the only rotten part was the bullets in the charger, the bottom ones were a little rusty, the upper one looks like new, but the charger was not in the gun for the last years, also the whole thing is very well oiled.
The belt of the gun is made in leather, not green cloth as i suppose is correct for a war gun, but IDK for sure.
Some light will be welcomed.

[BoxerFanatic]

Springfield Armory M1 Garand Carbine battle rifle in .30-06 caliber. (pronounced Thirty-ought-six)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_Garand

Some variants, usually Navy use, are chambered for the 7.62x51mm NATO cartridge, rather than the .30-06.

There should be a serial number or other part numbers somewhere on the action of the rifle, the trigger guard, or on the side of the breach end of the barrel (near the bolt, not near the muzzle.)

The type of gun is called a Carbine, which is a shorter length variant of a rifle, usually for combat maneuverability or otherwise easy-carry, rather than longer-barrel hunting or extended range accuracy rifles. Carbines also tend to be semi-automatic for rapid cycling and convenience, rather than bolt action, or other action cycling mechanisms.

Most were made by Springfield Armory, I believe, but during WWII it may have been licensed to other armorers to produce in larger numbers. They have been used all over the world, for many, many years, and a true war rifle probably has been treated roughly in the field, and quite possibly has been re-furbished at least once, if not more, unless it was a parade-duty special. A mint condition rifle would suggest a parade-duty rifle or otherwise a new rifle that has not been well used. Just because someone was a soldier in a time of war doesn't mean that they didn't buy the weapon at some other time, or some other reason that the weapon might not have seen field action.

Rust or corrosion on cartridges usually is an effect of moisture and dis-use. Chances are the gun has not been fired in some time, if the only 'en bloc' magazine clip has not been re-loaded with clean ammunition in a long enough time to let the brass corrode. Oiling is good, though, and probably prevented rust in the bore, and hopefully the action, which should help keep the rifle in working order. It would be a good idea to have a gun smith go through the gun's moving parts, gas passages, and check the barrel bore, before loading the weapon to be fired. Otherwise for display only without the intention to fire it, a method of blocking the action, or trigger with a lock, or otherwise making the rifle safe might be a good idea, even if it is temporary, and can be restored to operational condition later. Perhaps just assembling the bolt without the firing pin, or something. A gun smith would be able to give more information.

If you do fire the gun do not use corroded ammunition. It can jam, mis-fire, or even back-fire. If the cartridge has corroded, it is possible that the powder inside has gotten contaminated, as well, and if not, the brass could explode if it is weakened, and wedge itself into the breach, or any number of other failures. Always use dry, clean ammo. When in doubt, re-load with fresh cartridges, and find out where to discard potentially dangerous unfired cartridges from your local Range Master, Gun Smith, or Dealer. Don't risk your weapon, or especially your safety on that.

The rifle sling may have been replaced with a leather sling, rather than cloth webbing, especially if the original sling deteriorated with age, or use.

If there isn't an obvious serial number, or if the word Carbine is alternately spelled (french, as in French-Canadian), it is likely from an alternate manufacturer, especially if it was in the Canadian armed forces, rather than the US.

This site might have some info.
http://www.northcapepubs.com/m1gar.htm

[Stevebsy]

Boxerfanatic is speaking of the M1 Garand rifle, which is the full sized rifle in 30-06. The 30 M1 carbine is a almost child sized rifle, based around a similar action but scaled down in size and cartridge. From what I see, I think he is looking at an M1 Carbine.

Either one was made by a variety of manufacturing companies, and values can vary extremely based on this, and of course, condition. $1000 may be a bargain, or very expensive. Do your research before buying.

A search should find a ton of information on either one.

[BoxerFanatic]

Thank you for making that distinction. Stevesby is correct.

The Garand and Carbine are different sizes.

[MadMaxSvx]

Originally Posted by BoxerFanatic

Thank you for making that distinction. Stevesby is correct.

The Garand and Carbine are different sizes.

Yes, they are different in size, the carbine is really light and small compared with the Garand, but the info on that link gave me the hints i needed.
If the gun really is an original, is cheap, but not a steal. I think that i will inspect the thing once more to search for S/Ns to confirm autenticity.

[lhopp77]

Originally Posted by MadMaxSvx

The thing is that someone is selling a "WW2" (in the words of the seller) M1 Garand.
I carefully inspected the carabine and the only words in the steel frame are: "U.S Carabine cal 30"
She (the seller) said that the gun belonged to her brother, who was a soldier in the war for the canadian army.
The asking price is 1000 dollars, is that cheap or not for a supposed original WW2 M1 in mint shape?

Now if it was an M2 Carbine, that might be interesting. Of course it would be illegal in the US. The M1 and M2 carbines are visually the same except the M2 has a selector switch. The M2 is fully automatic and the M1 is only semi-automatic.

I would do some detailed research on the weapon. It should definitely have a serial number. IF it does NOT have a serial number, that means someone has removed it which would significantly reduce the collector value.

If you are just interested in a weapon of that size and caliber--the 30 cal carbine round is fairly small and not much good except for target practice and home protection. There is an exact copy civilian version made by Ruger that can be bought new. I have one of these Rugers and a western style revolver that shoots the same .30 carbine round.

Picture of round comparisons below from left to right-- .30 Cal military rifle round (same 30-06 civilian designation), .30 carbine and then the M14 or M60 MG round, the 7.62mm military (.308 civilian) and finally the 5.56mm (.223 Remington civilian)

Some interesting facts about the M1 Carbine can be found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_carbine

Many of you already know this, so sorry if I bored you.

Lee

[MadMaxSvx]

Originally Posted by lhopp77

Now if it was an M2 Carbine, that might be interesting. Of course it would be illegal in the US. The M1 and M2 carbines are visually the same except the M2 has a selector switch. The M2 is fully automatic and the M1 is only semi-automatic.

I would do some detailed research on the weapon. It should definitely have a serial number. IF it does NOT have a serial number, that means someone has removed it which would significantly reduce the collector value.

If you are just interested in a weapon of that size and caliber--the 30 cal carbine round is fairly small and not much good except for target practice and home protection. There is an exact copy civilian version made by Ruger that can be bought new. I have one of these Rugers and a western style revolver that shoots the same .30 carbine round.

Picture of round comparisons below from left to right-- .30 Cal military rifle round (same 30-06 civilian designation), .30 carbine and then the M14 or M60 MG round, the 7.62mm military (.308 civilian) and finally the 5.56mm (.223 Remington civilian)

Some interesting facts about the M1 Carbine can be found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_carbine

Many of you already know this, so sorry if I bored you.

Lee

I think that its a M1 because i readed that the M2 had a banana shaped magazine, but the one on this gun is straight.
You mention a switch, i saw a switch in that gun but i think thats only a safe lock for the trigger, there is also a button to release the magazine, close to the mentioned switch.
Maybe the S/N was erased purposedly or maybe it was sandblasted and the numbers disappeared, i need to check closely once more, because was night then i saw it and the lighting was poor.
I like that carbine mainly because i just like old guns, i had a pistol from 1850 that i had to sell a while ago , and also i feel tempted by the idea of having a relic of world war 2.
The mentioned carbine, uses the second bullet from the left in that pic, as you said, for shooting practice purposes it should be ideal, an useful relic .


PS: Useful info is never boring, thanks!

[lhopp77]

If the SN has been deleted OR the weapon sandblasted it would have limited value. One like that here would probably sell for less than $300 even in good shape.

Lee

[Francis]

does it look like this one ? this is a 30. remington ,my father has one he knows that this is a very rare model, but have good luck on finding ammunitions , he's having hard time finding them, everytime he goes to an armorer for ammo the guy wants to buy this carbine at pretty high costs !!

[lhopp77]

Originally Posted by Francis

does it look like this one ? this is a 30. remington ,my father has one he knows that this is a very rare model, but have good luck on finding ammunitions , he's having hard time finding them, everytime he goes to an armorer for ammo the guy wants to buy this carbine at pretty high costs !!

Nope--does not look anything like that. Your picture is a much older rifle.

It looks like this (the long gun). This is the modern civilian version but they look the same. The revolver in the picture shoots the same .30 cal ammo.

Lee

[MadMaxSvx]

Originally Posted by Francis

does it look like this one ? this is a 30. remington ,my father has one he knows that this is a very rare model, but have good luck on finding ammunitions , he's having hard time finding them, everytime he goes to an armorer for ammo the guy wants to buy this carbine at pretty high costs !!

Nop, they are different models, do you know wich year it is? Looks like a very old design.

[MadMaxSvx]

Originally Posted by lhopp77

Nope--does not look anything like that. Your picture is a much older rifle.

It looks like this (the long gun). This is the modern civilian version but they look the same. The revolver in the picture shoots the same .30 cal ammo.

Lee

That gun has the banana shaped, 15 round magazine, like the M2.
Do you see that switch close to the trigger in your picture? Is this the trigger safe lock or a selector for semi automatic mode? The one offered to me has the same switch on it, but i remember it in an upper position, above the trigger, but i may be wrong.

[MadMaxSvx]

Oh, by the way, the seller also offered me a Remington Wingmaster 870 shotgun unused. She told me to set a prize for it and she will see if she sells it. I wonder how is its value. It has the retractable buttstock aswell as a new wooden one.