another stalling thread...

[kwren]

I am sure you cleaned the battery cables before you put them on the new battery. Am I right?

Keith

[SVX10]

yea, I cleaned everything. I just went out to do some diagnostics and now it won't even start with a jump. I took voltage readings at the battery with and without jump. Without jump I have 13 or 14v. With jump it's up at 15v. This is using a cheap analog meter.

Anyway, now it won't start even with a jump. The starter won't engage. All the other stuff works, but the starter won't do anything.

[kwren]

I would make a fused jumper wire with a spade connector on the end, unplug the small wire from the starter (spade connector) and fasten the end of the jumper to the spade connector on the starter. Touch the other end of the jumper to the battery + terminal. Do this with the key in the off position and shifter in park.

If the starter fails to turn the engine over, the starter is bad.

[SVX10]

Thanks. I may try that in the future. For now, I'm just getting a new ignition switch. Mine had some issues unrelated to this latest problem so I'm just going to get a new one and see if that helps anything. If not, I'll start looking into the starter.

The car has done some really odd stuff I'll summarize real quick.

1. IN the past, I've been able to start the car and drive it with a key from my parents' Legacy
2. Can take the key out of the ignition in the ON position with the engine running.

Just between today and yesterday here's what happened.

Yesterday I installed the new battery and when I turned the key to "ON" everything went dead. Interior lights, audio, everything. I wasn't even trying to crank. Every time I would click over to the on position, everything would die. When I'd turn back to "ACC", everything would slowly flicker back to life.

So, not really knowing what was going on, I hooked it up for a jump start. It started right away. I drove it around the block and it was fine. Ran smoothly, sounded good, all that. I got back home and parked it but left it idling just for the heck of it. After a minute or so of idling it started sputtering then stalled.

So, I got back in to start the car. When I turned it to "ON" it no longer died. But, when I turned it to "START" nothing happened. No click from the starter...nothing.

Today I went out to jump start it. I got it all hooked up and turned the key, and again nothing at all. No click from the starter. But, it's still working in the "ON" position, which it wasn't earlier yesterday.

So, does that sound like an ignition switch? Does that sound like a starter?

The one that really baffles me was the phase when it would die every time I went to "ON" even though I wasn't trying to start.

[kwren]

A jumper is a heck of a lot easier to make than it is to change the ignition switch. Might not be a bad idea to at least start there.

Keith

[SVX10]

I hear ya but I already have the ignition switch out. It really wasn't that hard to get to.

I tried your jumper suggestion and got the starter to engage, but not crank. Not sure why it won't crank, but it engaged every time I touched the jumper cable to the battery. So, something may be wrong with the starter causing it to not crank, but it should at least be engaging when I turn the key.

[Motorsport-SVX]

could be a bad battery cable of sorts
with too high of resistance causing the starting problem
esp if the cable is getting hot or warm from repeat
starting

[SoCal LS-L]

So does the starter click when you turn the key as well? You said it kicks out when u jump it, just doesnt crank. If you are 100% positive your battery cable is clean on both the battery end and the starter end, and your connections are also clean and shiny on the battery posts and terminals, then pull the starter and have it bench tested. If the starter does nothing when u turn the key, then get that new switch.

[Francis]

1st my battery cable were loose making boosting not easy ,cable were overheeating and shorting.i burnt my 100A fuse done with alternator mod
2nd my battery was dead so i bought a new one !! red top optima . no more problems.

maybe you shorted something ?...it'd go with the alternator. boost it , start it unplug negative terminal

[kwren]

Use a good jump battery system and then connect the small jumper wire to the spade connector on the starter so you know the voltage is good and then if it doesn't turn the engine over the starter is bad...

Keith

[kwren]

A loose battery cable on your car battery will not affect the jumping process because the voltage source is only on the big clamp on cables to the electrical system... However a lo charged battery in your car could and will sap some energy from the jumping source.

Keith

[SVX10]

I'll give all the contacts for the battery and starter a good cleaning then try again. Thanks for the input. It'd be nice if it was something simple like that.

Francis mentioned burning a 100A fuse with the alternator mod. Does that mean something was wrong with your alternator mod? I have the alternator grounding mod...should I disconnect that for now and see how everything works?

[SVX10]

OK...here's the latest...

Cleaned the termials, the connectors @ the termials, the black/yellow wire connector on top of starter, connector to starter solenoid, + terminal of alternator, and alternator mod grounding cables (terminal to bolt on DS of AC Compressor, terminal to body, + terminal alternator to + terminal battery). I think all the critical cables and grounds are clean.

After cleaning I tried starting normally

ACC - OK
ON - OK
Start - clock and interior lights dim, but nothing from the starter

So, I then tried jump starting

ACC - OK
ON - OK
Start - clock and interior lights dim, but nothing from the starter

So, then I checked the starter again by using a 12v battery charger @ 50A and connecting it directly to the starter. The starter clicked, but did not crank. Perhaps the 50A is not enough to crank, or perhaps the starter is bad too.

My main question right now is this:
Besides a faulty ignition switch, what could/would prevent the starter from engaging using the key when it will readily engage with a direct jump to the battery?

Next tests before the ignition switch arrives:

Check voltage @ starter with key in "Start" position
Check current draw from battery with key in "start" position
Check voltage @ battery with key in "start" position

Man...this stupid little no-start is annoying.

[SVX10]

New info.

Put the new ignition switch and relay in. No change.

So, I tested a few things.

1. I'm only getting 18mV @ the starter spade connector in the "START" position. When I turn the key to "START", the lead to the spade goes from 0V to 18mV. I'm assuming that's nowhere near enough to engage the starter.
2. The starter cranks the engine with a direct jump to battery @ 12.8V. The engine will sputter, but not start and run.
3. This is the interesting part. I disconnected a wire in my alternator wiring mod...the one from the Alternator + to the battery +. When I disconnected that, no power to the vehicle at all. Anybody have any ideas why that would be? My alternator wiring mod has no fuses. Stupid, I know, but I did it when I was young and stupid and never addressed it.

Also, I have a 5MT. I noticed the starter inhibitor switch is on the AT shift lever. could that be an issue?

I appreciate your continued support and hope this new info will clear some stuff up.

[SVX10]

Wow...it's always something simple.

Clutch position switch was not closing, so car thought clutch was out and not allowing it to start. I closed the switch and she started right up!

I'm glad to have it running and glad it was something simple.

Still confused about the above alternator comment. I checked voltage from the alternator + @ idle and it was 14.4. Isn't that too high? Can anybody still help me with the above alternator issue?

Thanks for your help up to this point. you guys are a great resource and I hope I can help one of y'all one day!