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  #106  
Old 07-31-2007, 08:44 AM
Kelvin Kelvin is offline
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ha. What an idiot. From the article:

"Looking at the court documents, it's—or is it its?—hard to know where to begin, though a cheap shot at Mr. Trujillo's lawyer and the use of possessive pronouns is as good a place as any. Setting aside the fact that the iPhone battery is covered for the first year under warranty, thus negating that first year of the "annual" cost of iPhone ownership, the battery life information is just wrong. The battery page for the iPhone provides Apple's official position on battery life.

A properly maintained iPhone battery is designed to retain up to 80% of its original capacity at 400 full charge and discharge cycles. You may choose to replace your battery when it no longer holds sufficient charge to meet your needs."

What a dumbass.

PS: I played with one of these the other day. It was pretty neat.... but I definitely wouldn't spend $500 of my cash on one.
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  #107  
Old 07-31-2007, 11:07 AM
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mohrds mohrds is offline
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Its about time Apple gets called on the carpet for their non-user replaceable battery stance. The iPhone is the first cell phone in history to have a non-replaceable battery. I had a bag phone in 1985 that had a replaceable battery.

Apple makes devices with built in batteries simply as a future profit generating measure, nothing more. Lithium Ion batteries have a great power capacity at the expense of an overall short life span. Apple knows this and does not include any refresh, or float maintenance circuitry in their products. Hell, my DeWalt cordless tools have maintenance float chargers with logic controls to keep the battery as close to 100% charge capacity as possible. You can safely "top off" Lion batteries with the proper charger. Apple chooses to to keep the product lifespan short to coincide with their next version hardware release.

Apple knows that the recommended charging/discharging to keep the iPhone at peak performance are not in line with how people will use them. People count on their phone and thus throw it on the charger every night or two to "top it off" so they don't have to worry about it the next day. If you follow Apple's recommendation, you will use the phone down to 8-10% battery capacity, fully charge it, repeat. So use the phone until the recommended charge level, then stop doing business for the next few hours when it is finally discharged to 10% at 9:30 AM? Unrealistic and they plan on that.

Just one more reason that I don't buy into the Apple craze...

Doug
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  #108  
Old 07-31-2007, 11:44 AM
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Landshark Landshark is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mohrds
Its about time Apple gets called on the carpet for their non-user replaceable battery stance. The iPhone is the first cell phone in history to have a non-replaceable battery. I had a bag phone in 1985 that had a replaceable battery.

Apple makes devices with built in batteries simply as a future profit generating measure, nothing more. Lithium Ion batteries have a great power capacity at the expense of an overall short life span. Apple knows this and does not include any refresh, or float maintenance circuitry in their products. Hell, my DeWalt cordless tools have maintenance float chargers with logic controls to keep the battery as close to 100% charge capacity as possible. You can safely "top off" Lion batteries with the proper charger. Apple chooses to to keep the product lifespan short to coincide with their next version hardware release.

Apple knows that the recommended charging/discharging to keep the iPhone at peak performance are not in line with how people will use them. People count on their phone and thus throw it on the charger every night or two to "top it off" so they don't have to worry about it the next day. If you follow Apple's recommendation, you will use the phone down to 8-10% battery capacity, fully charge it, repeat. So use the phone until the recommended charge level, then stop doing business for the next few hours when it is finally discharged to 10% at 9:30 AM? Unrealistic and they plan on that.

Just one more reason that I don't buy into the Apple craze...

Doug
i don't mind so much on the iPod, because its either being powered by my car battery or a wall plug at work - the only two places i use it. there could be no battery at all and it wouldn't really affect me.

a cell phone with a "permanent" battery on the other hand, is just plain retardo.
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  #109  
Old 07-31-2007, 06:54 PM
Kelvin Kelvin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mohrds
Its about time Apple gets called on the carpet for their non-user replaceable battery stance. The iPhone is the first cell phone in history to have a non-replaceable battery. I had a bag phone in 1985 that had a replaceable battery.
It is replaceable. Just not user replaceable. Just like the iPod, which as I've said before, is clearly not hard to replace. Here's a video of how to replace the 'non replaceable' iPod battery:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=2-qCIBW2-lw

Quote:
Apple makes devices with built in batteries simply as a future profit generating measure, nothing more. Lithium Ion batteries have a great power capacity at the expense of an overall short life span.
This is untrue. Lithium ion batteries have a decent lifespan, what you are probably referring to is how short they last in laptops... this is because of HEAT. Heat is a lithium ion batteries enemy, and severely shortens its life. But saying they have 'short lives' is simply hogwash. Their lifespan starts to shorten as soon as they produced, however, which is unlike other battery technologies.

Quote:
Apple knows this and does not include any refresh, or float maintenance circuitry in their products. Hell, my DeWalt cordless tools have maintenance float chargers with logic controls to keep the battery as close to 100% charge capacity as possible. You can safely "top off" Lion batteries with the proper charger. Apple chooses to to keep the product lifespan short to coincide with their next version hardware release.
My powerbook has a lithium ion battery, with everything you just described.

Quote:
Apple knows that the recommended charging/discharging to keep the iPhone at peak performance are not in line with how people will use them. People count on their phone and thus throw it on the charger every night or two to "top it off" so they don't have to worry about it the next day. If you follow Apple's recommendation, you will use the phone down to 8-10% battery capacity, fully charge it, repeat. So use the phone until the recommended charge level, then stop doing business for the next few hours when it is finally discharged to 10% at 9:30 AM? Unrealistic and they plan on that.
It's a lithium ion battery. It can be recharged whenever, and the more often, the better. The whole 'discharge until it's almost dead and THEN recharge it' only applies to batteries of a different technology, like NiCads.
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  #110  
Old 07-31-2007, 08:03 PM
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Landshark Landshark is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelvin
It is replaceable. Just not user replaceable. Just like the iPod, which as I've said before, is clearly not hard to replace. Here's a video of how to replace the 'non replaceable' iPod battery:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=2-qCIBW2-lw
that video is for an iPod - the iPhone's battery is soldered in. what soccer moms and teenagers are going to whip out the soldering iron, solder and some wick to replace the battery in their cell phone?

the iPhone battery is also $79 (+$5 shipping). i can get a battery for my phone for $5 *shipped* and replace it in about 10 seconds without any tools.

do you honestly think the non-replaceable iPhone battery is a great idea on the part of Apple? we all have brands and products we prefer over others, but don't be silly.
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  #111  
Old 07-31-2007, 08:10 PM
RSVX RSVX is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelvin
It is replaceable. Just not user replaceable. Just like the iPod, which as I've said before, is clearly not hard to replace. Here's a video of how to replace the 'non replaceable' iPod battery:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=2-qCIBW2-lw


Rob,
I was wondering if you could post the link to that YouTube video a couple more times. I dont think we saw it the first 5 times...
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  #112  
Old 07-31-2007, 09:20 PM
Kelvin Kelvin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Landshark
that video is for an iPod - the iPhone's battery is soldered in. what soccer moms and teenagers are going to whip out the soldering iron, solder and some wick to replace the battery in their cell phone?

the iPhone battery is also $79 (+$5 shipping). i can get a battery for my phone for $5 *shipped* and replace it in about 10 seconds without any tools.

do you honestly think the non-replaceable iPhone battery is a great idea on the part of Apple? we all have brands and products we prefer over others, but don't be silly.
Probably the same teenagers who order iPod batteries/hard drives online, pop open their iPod, and replace things. And yeah, it's an expensive battery. It's also a brand new phone. I'm sure the RAZR's replacement batteries from Motorola weren't $5 when the RAZR first came out either. And no, I don't think it's a good idea. Not because it's a horrible thing, but because a bunch of dumbasses like the one in the article are going to be running around like "OMG! SUE APPLE! CORPORATE GREED! NON REPLACEABLE BATTERY! ALL IPHONES WILL DiE!!!!!!", and I find that annoying. If I designed it, it would have been replaceable. I'm just saying it's not that big of a deal to me. All my portable devices that I have ever had still have the original batteries (excluding remotes, and my digital camera). But my iPod's batteries, my PDA's batteries, all my cellphones, they've all had the factory batteries and they worked fine, until they were out of date (the products themselves).
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  #113  
Old 08-01-2007, 09:04 AM
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mohrds mohrds is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelvin
My powerbook has a lithium ion battery, with everything you just described.
Not true. Most laptops (including just about anything you buy at a Best Buy/Circuit City) do not have the circuitry to provide a float charge. They just use a constant charge to "maintain" and rely on circuitry built into the battery to keep it from frying. That circuitry is usually sub-par at best.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelvin
It's a lithium ion battery. It can be recharged whenever, and the more often, the better. The whole 'discharge until it's almost dead and THEN recharge it' only applies to batteries of a different technology, like NiCads.
A LIon battery is good for about 400 full charge cycles. The major cycle is consumed from 55-95%. If you "Top Off" you battery when it is at 60%, it shortens the cycle lifespan as much as if you charge it up from 10%. The language they use is correct "400 full charge or 800 half-charge" but anything slightly over half charged counts as one cycle. Also, if you charge it from 10% to 65% it also subtracts a full charge cycle from the lifespan.
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  #114  
Old 08-01-2007, 06:45 PM
Kelvin Kelvin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mohrds
Not true. Most laptops (including just about anything you buy at a Best Buy/Circuit City) do not have the circuitry to provide a float charge. They just use a constant charge to "maintain" and rely on circuitry built into the battery to keep it from frying. That circuitry is usually sub-par at best.
What is the difference between a 'float charge' that keeps it at 100%, as you said, and circuitry that keeps the battery at 100%? I don't see the difference. Considering what a selling point 'runtime' is on laptops, I'm pretty sure that they've optimized the circuits to run as efficiently as possible. Especially since they cost more than a cordless drill.

PS: They don't sell Macs at best buy, do they?



Quote:
A LIon battery is good for about 400 full charge cycles. The major cycle is consumed from 55-95%. If you "Top Off" you battery when it is at 60%, it shortens the cycle lifespan as much as if you charge it up from 10%. The language they use is correct "400 full charge or 800 half-charge" but anything slightly over half charged counts as one cycle. Also, if you charge it from 10% to 65% it also subtracts a full charge cycle from the lifespan.
>shrug<

Not that it's super credible, but everything I've read about lithium ion says it's much better than what you described:

Time durability (24-36) months
Cycle durability 1200 cycles

ANYWAY, I don't see the point of *****ing, since pretty much any portable electronic device uses the same type of battery these days: Lithium Ion. >shrug<
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