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  #1  
Old 11-11-2002, 03:45 PM
bjones
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Hello SVX ..... Goodbye SVX

I have been looking for an SVX for some time (over 2 years thinking about it, then seriously for the last 3 months) and finally bought one (of which more anon). I've posted here on the subject of my search, but I was looking for a black 96 or 97 with low mileage; and I finally found one - here in Winnipeg of all places - a private sale with only 55000 km (34000 mi). I took a look at the car and was very disappointed. Specifically:
- the tan upholstery which so looked so rich and creamy in the Subaru brochures was a dull, insipid brown, and the leather felt harder than I remembered from other SVXs (I've only ever had the opportunity to examine/drive three 92s). Strangely enough, the seats somehow looked out of place; with the grey leather the interior looked to be an integrated whole, but with the tan the seats seemed to be an afterthought. I know - I'm weird!
- the car was not all that well looked after. Quite a few rattles and some noises from the suspension.
- most serious of all from my viewpoint, the power just seemed to die once the revs climbed past 5000 rpm. This was a very abrupt transition; up to 5000 it was a strong 6 cylinder, 5500 and above it was an insipid 4. Maybe there was something wrong with this particular car, but the 92s that I have driven were strong up to 6500 rpm. I have heard many times that the later models were detuned by Subaru and I'd be interested in knowing if other people have noticed the same.

OK, this didn't seem good, and put me right off the 97 and, by implication, the 96s as well. However, Frontier Subaru here in the city were in the process of reconditioning a black 92. Lots of miles (174000 km, or 108000 miles) but I had them do a leakdown test and the results were extremely good; 3 cylinders dropped 5 psi and the rest were 6 psi. I spoke with them and they were doing a very thorough job: remanufactured transmission, new front and rear differentials, new engine seals, valve adjustment, all new belts, new paint, new suspension bits, etc. The car came with 17" wheels (not great, but better looking that the factory ones) and 225/45 performance tires. I got to thinking about this, and with the money that I'd save compared to buying a 96 or 97 I could do things like a new exhaust system a lot earlier. I took a test drive and was favourable impressed, the power was good up to 6500 rpm and generally the car rode well (even with the low profile tires) and stuck to the road tenaciously. I found a number of things that needed fixing but I decided to take the plunge.

At this point, things started going wrong. I negotiated my price (including fixing the problem areas - putting in a tranny filter for example) then there were various delays, like the wheels and tires being stolen! The problems were not Frontier Subaru's fault so no blame on them. The details don't matter but it took quite a while to sort things out and I finally took delivery on Oct 28 - only to find a tranny trouble code appearing and only one speaker working. The trouble code was for Duty Solenoid A and Frontier Subaru said that it had always been there even when they put the new tranny in and they hadn't been able to find the reason for it, but that everything seemed to work OK. I'd noticed that the shifts were quite firm so I asked if they had checked the dropping resistor. "What resistor?" was the reply. I suspect that the resistor is just open circuit but I haven't had a chance to check it. Then I saw that the mileage was just awful, and the car was running very rich. Then, last Friday, on the highway I got this awful banging and rattling sound and the power just disappeared (to simplify the story). I pulled over, popped the hood, and there was the engine trying to jump out of the engine bay. Needless to say, a tow to Frontier Subaru was in order. Their comment after they started it was "It sounds like a broken piston ... but it doesn't".

I had heard from a couple of sources that the previous owner drove the car very hard, and since this happened I have heard the same story. I had assumed that the good results of the leakdown test meant that the engine was in good shape - I guess that I was wrong. What else might be on the verge of failing? I don't know but, with all the delays and bad luck I experienced before I took deliver of the car, I am inclined to go along with a friend of mine in his opinion that "the car is cursed". I have a 90 day money back guarantee and I plan on going in tomorrow and asking for my money back; I just think that I'd be asking for trouble to keep it.

So, what now. To say that I am disappointed and dejected is putting it mildly . My son started suggesting other project cars but I didn't want to buy a "car", I wanted to buy an SVX. I may just give up totally on the project car idea and stick to basic transportation.
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  #2  
Old 11-11-2002, 04:09 PM
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Barry, I'm very sorry to hear of all your trouble finding a good SVX.

Why would a dealer 'recondition' an SVX? How do titles in Canada work? If you told the same story, but from the US, I'd have to wonder whether the car really had a clean title.

I don't know how hard you have to drive an SVX to wreck the engine, but my guess is that it's gotta be 'pretty hard.' The EG33 is an extremely reliable engine - well built and very dependable. Mine has 133k on it and runs as smooth and strong as ever.

'97 SVXs weren't really 'detuned.' Post-'92, SVX ECUs included a speed governor at, I think, 143mph. Also, there was a minor change made to the knock sensor circuitry that fixed a bad hesitation upon launch (experienced on many '92s and '93s). As far as I know, those are the only modifications made to the engine throughout the model year. The engine itself is identical in all SVXs.

I'm not certain what your problems with the interior on the '97 were. It sounds to me like the leather wasn't well taken care of.

I don't blame you for asking for your money back. Any SVX is easy to fall in love with, but it's worth the effort to find one that was well taken care of.

I wish you the best of luck, Barry.
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  #3  
Old 11-11-2002, 04:42 PM
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sorry to hear about your luck, but don't be discouraged! my '97 is very quick, and the tan leather is beautiful. i wanted a low mileage '96 or '97 because they probably had a better chance of being unmolested, and had all the updates. the official specs say the '97 is slightly faster than the '96, but slightly slower than the '92. anyways, despite the low mileage, it sounds like it wasn't taken care of, and that can be a very bad thing. these cars can be wonderful if properly maintained/ cared for, but a nightmare if abused and neglected. a poor interior is a bad sign - if they can't even keep up with the interior, do you think it was being kept up mechanically? look for a well taken care of example, with maintenance records. also get a pre-purchase inspection (about $60), preferably at a different Sube dealer than the one the car was serviced at, for an unbiased opinion. i've said before, there are what appear to be some nice low-mileage ones on ebay right now. good luck with the search - your SVX is out there somewhere!
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  #4  
Old 11-12-2002, 08:12 PM
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That's a very sad story to hear. I'm seriously thinking that there are extremely few good SVX's left in Canada.

Unfortunately, I knew the previous owner of that SVX. He would always be out cruising on sunday nights on Portage Ave. He definately did not appreciate the car at all and I remember him at one point saying he was going to trade it in and get himself a Mustang.

When he owned the car he had to put in another transmission, he also destroyed the front differential (he got stuck in some mud) and practically every body panel was keyed. He was jealous of my SVX because his was burning oil.

As for Frontier Subaru...they started business in 1998 (the year after the last SVX). I doubt their mechanics know much at all about the SVX and I think they used that one as training to learn how to work on them. I believe that it is their fault as to why the engine did what it did.

The best place in Winnipeg for anything Subaru is still Marion Motors. They are no longer a Subaru dealership but their mechanics have been around since before the SVX was introduced. One mechanic even claims to have replaced 4EAT clutch packs and installed shift kits.

Were the wheels stolen when the car was at the dealership? I drive by there every day as I live 2 blocks away.

If you still have the car see what Marion Motors thinks could be wrong with it.

Another question...did they ever say why there were holes cut in the A-pillers?
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  #5  
Old 11-12-2002, 10:03 PM
CopsodyX
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Pockets
Barry, I'm very sorry to hear of all your trouble finding a good SVX.

Why would a dealer 'recondition' an SVX? How do titles in Canada work? If you told the same story, but from the US, I'd have to wonder whether the car really had a clean title.

I don't know how hard you have to drive an SVX to wreck the engine, but my guess is that it's gotta be 'pretty hard.' The EG33 is an extremely reliable engine - well built and very dependable. Mine has 133k on it and runs as smooth and strong as ever.

'97 SVXs weren't really 'detuned.' Post-'92, SVX ECUs included a speed governor at, I think, 143mph. Also, there was a minor change made to the knock sensor circuitry that fixed a bad hesitation upon launch (experienced on many '92s and '93s). As far as I know, those are the only modifications made to the engine throughout the model year. The engine itself is identical in all SVXs.

I'm not certain what your problems with the interior on the '97 were. It sounds to me like the leather wasn't well taken care of.

I don't blame you for asking for your money back. Any SVX is easy to fall in love with, but it's worth the effort to find one that was well taken care of.

I wish you the best of luck, Barry.
Here's the deal with the engines.

The engines are exactly the same for all years. The only thing thats different are the ECUs that control them. These are some changes I know of:

- after 1/91 manufacture date, they reduced max engine RPM to 6,500 to put less stress on the tranny. In 1/91 models, max engine RPM is 7,000 RPM. This is my next mod...let the SVX rev to 7,500 RPM, cause i heard it's more than possible and Subaru only put the limits cause of the tranny. Also, i'm convinced that they added some sort of stability control system, cause no matter how hard i try, i can't get that car to spin out unless i'm in neutral...but thats actually a TCU thing.

- Sometime in 1994 the ECU was changed to have different launch patterns. This was what the ECU update for 92s is for. It stops some hesitation problem, improves cold starts, and adds about a second to the 0-60 times to be even easier to the tranny. I think the knock sensors were changed too.

- In 1996 models, the software was changed yet again. They got slower.

- In 1997 models, the software was changed again, and it seemed to improve fuel economy and get 0-60 .5 tics faster.

Now, I know that fuel economy in the 92s with no ECU update is terrible, according to what i've experienced in my car. I get no more than 12 MPG usually. I'm told its the knock sensors or the fuel injectors. It's not carbon buildup (MotorVac said they can tell from my emissions...the car runs very clean). And lots of other solutions have been tried The car runs smoothly now. But 12 MPG...damn. If anyone has suggestions, please let me know what u may think it is.

I do great in 0-60. I get 6.9-7.6. 7.6, BTW, is going up a slight grade.

Bring back that SVX IMMEDIATELY if not sooner. Get either your money back, or the whole engine reconditioned. I went through these problems, and trust me, if they give you any **** about ANY of your requests as to repairs, demand your money back. Good luck.

PS - I don't like the 93-97s either...the interior does look out of place, and I don't like the color scheme, and they're slower.

We have to work on a modified ECU.
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  #6  
Old 11-12-2002, 11:39 PM
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I never knew about an ECU Upgrad for the 92's. Where can I find one of these extra parts to make my car get a little closer to the speed it looks like it should have?
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  #7  
Old 11-13-2002, 06:49 AM
CopsodyX
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Originally posted by BoominSVX
I never knew about an ECU Upgrad for the 92's. Where can I find one of these extra parts to make my car get a little closer to the speed it looks like it should have?
Well, do a manual conversion, and that'll remove the TCU and the pseudo traction control system, and the launch manager, so you'll have more dramatic launches...i'm thinking just over 6 seconds since the auto can do it in 6.8 on my car. I have driven other SVXs, and none are as fast as mine now. BTW, that whole hesitation thing stopped after I used zMax i think...but gas mileage didn't improve at all.

If you get the right ratios and do a few simple mods, I have no doubt that our SVX will indeed reach 160 MPH with no problem, possibly faster. If it stays at 144 MPH after my simple mods and manual conversion, then there is definitely a limiter on the 92s

I really want to do a mod on my SVX that takes it to, say, 7,100 RPM. These engines are wicked powerful and all these electronics aren't letting these engines live to their full potential.
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Old 11-13-2002, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by CopsodyX


Well, do a manual conversion, and that'll remove the TCU and the pseudo traction control system, and the launch manager, so you'll have more dramatic launches...i'm thinking just over 6 seconds since the auto can do it in 6.8 on my car. I have driven other SVXs, and none are as fast as mine now. BTW, that whole hesitation thing stopped after I used zMax i think...but gas mileage didn't improve at all.

If you get the right ratios and do a few simple mods, I have no doubt that our SVX will indeed reach 160 MPH with no problem, possibly faster. If it stays at 144 MPH after my simple mods and manual conversion, then there is definitely a limiter on the 92s

I really want to do a mod on my SVX that takes it to, say, 7,100 RPM. These engines are wicked powerful and all these electronics aren't letting these engines live to their full potential.
Hey Joey,
I would have to say that my SVX was definitely quicker than yours.

Larry
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  #9  
Old 11-13-2002, 10:19 AM
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Sorry to hear of your problems trying to get your hands on one our our beloved SVX's. I've been looking around to purchase a second one, just to have around for emergencies. I can find lots of them in the Toronto area for very good prices. Check out www.autotrader.ca and you'll see afew good deals to choose from. The 1992 pearl white one asking 9900.00 cdn is very near to where I live and I checked it out. It's in perfect condition and low mileage, in talking to the owner I believe if I dropped 8500.00 cdn (approx. 5000.00 usd) he'd take it. Good luck in your hunt, regards dave
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Old 11-13-2002, 12:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by CopsodyX


Here's the deal with the engines.

The engines are exactly the same for all years. The only thing thats different are the ECUs that control them. These are some changes I know of:

- after 1/91 manufacture date, they reduced max engine RPM to 6,500 to put less stress on the tranny. In 1/91 models, max engine RPM is 7,000 RPM. This is my next mod...let the SVX rev to 7,500 RPM, cause i heard it's more than possible and Subaru only put the limits cause of the tranny. Also, i'm convinced that they added some sort of stability control system, cause no matter how hard i try, i can't get that car to spin out unless i'm in neutral...but thats actually a TCU thing.
'Stability control' usually refers to an electronic system that activates the brakes to keep the car in control. The SVX was never offered with a stability control system. As a matter of fact, the first Subaru that I know of that is equipped with stability control is the Outback VDC.

Quote:
Originally posted by CopsodyX
- Sometime in 1994 the ECU was changed to have different launch patterns. This was what the ECU update for 92s is for. It stops some hesitation problem, improves cold starts, and adds about a second to the 0-60 times to be even easier to the tranny. I think the knock sensors were changed too.

- In 1996 models, the software was changed yet again. They got slower.

- In 1997 models, the software was changed again, and it seemed to improve fuel economy and get 0-60 .5 tics faster.
Do you have any documentation for these claims?
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  #11  
Old 11-14-2002, 01:04 PM
CopsodyX
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I know the SVX was never offered with "stability control", but there is definitely some spin limiting software...whenever you turn too fast, the engine torque is limited and your wheels stop spinning...you CAN feel the power loss. This is NOT just the AWD partitioning itself. There is a power loss.
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Old 11-14-2002, 03:59 PM
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Well, it's Goodbye SVX

Sad to say, but I returned the SVX today for a redund. The Sales Manager said that the engine damage was not serious but I was not able to figure out from his description exactly what had happened. I would, however, like to compliment everyone at the dealership for their courtesy and helpfullness; obviously they could not have been happy with me returning the car, but they never let it show and were unfailingly polite and friendly.

There are one or two interesting things that have surfaced in this thread, and when I get a chance I'd like to address them (no time now, I've got to get supper ready for my son and I).

I find that, despite being really down for a couple of days there, I have not given up on the SVX. I'll get one yet guys!!
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Old 11-14-2002, 07:16 PM
Ron Mummert Ron Mummert is offline
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Smile Re: Well, it's Goodbye SVX

I find that, despite being really down for a couple of days there, I have not given up on the SVX. I'll get one yet guys!! [/B][/QUOTE]


Barry. Given the fact that the dealership extended the lost art of courtesy to you, & the fact that you are still in the SVX mood, why not let them seek another SVX for you? They know your criteria & what you're willing to spend. Less chance of a "lemon" next time. Remember - the support group here is worth a few grand in itself.
Good luck with the continued search.

Ron.
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Old 11-15-2002, 10:16 AM
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Bjones

Hello Bjones

After reading your story. I was reminded very much of my own SVX purchase..
From 92 when the SVX first hit the market.. I had a brochure and stuph on the car. Fell in love the moment I read about it.

I looked and loooked for an SVX.. FOr a long time..
Everybody always wanted Big bucks for the car.. Like it had a stainless steel body..

I got really seroius on my search and with in 7 months I found an SVX..

I looked all over, called all over the nation. Drove to various states. Like kentucky..
On one trip I used a car locator to find one.. They did...
By doing so I saved myself alot of trouble. Not only does it take care of Out of state fees for holding the car.. And trust alot of little dealers want holding cash...
All the leagal stuff is taken care of.. If the owner or dealer delling the car makes a promise it's in GOOd shape.. It's bad news for them if it is NOT..

anyhow.. This one trip I remember so well. I drove about 300 miles only to FIND a 97, with Tan leather, 33k and Messed up engine.. Oh you would have never thought it by drivin..
until you stopped of course and noticed the temp gaug climb higher and higher..

U know since I had been lied to. I left the car running in the guys parking lot Smokin to all hell and back.. THen walked in about 10 mins later.. I wanted to make sure that someone else Looking for an SVX like me would KNOW alot sooner... SOmething was wrong.

THe dealer seemed upset with me. However when I disclosed how he lied to me and the Locator service who he was in Leagal aggrements with he shut up fast.. It could have gotten ugly..

to this day I should have driven the car around longer after the discovery, and just parked it in his parking lot running.. By the time it would have been found.. Everything should have been Well melted..

The point of this long POST..... Don't let this get you discourage.
Car shopping is one of the most frustrating tasks...
The fact you want an SVX, just makes it a tad harder..
Keep up your search... DON't give up on your DREAM..

Better to live and try , then to abandon your dream..

I did buy an SVX soon after the Ky event.. Found the car 12 miles from my house. 1 owner, garage kept, the inside of the car was never smoked in, and looked as if it had never been sat in..
THe trunk looked SHow ROOM clean...
I had found someons CHild of the 4 wheel version.. SO shall U.
just Keep looking.. People live everyday just to get that chance to make a dream happen.. Ya goona give yours up so easy?

Keep on a lookin...
SVX1999

P.s Ditch the car you have now while U can........ FInd what you really want.. Keep tabs on the cars Real worth as in how much the loan value is, yellow book value, BLue book , BLack book, that's the ticket..
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Old 11-15-2002, 01:13 PM
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Barry:

That's one ugly story! This might make you happier. There is a chance ... just an outside chance that I might part with my Polo Green '96 come next spring. I've been narrowing my search for the right Boxter and I've just found a friend who can give me heated storage for it.

So, if I decide to let it go, I'll let you know. A roadtrip out to Edmonton wouldn't do you any harm anyway. VIN# 795 (by the way, who has #'s 794 & 796?), garaged, 80,000 Kms, never smoked in, excellent mechanical and very good cosmetic shape. No commute as I have a home office. Used, not abused. All records. This one won't let you down.

Hang in there.
Chris.
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