More brakes......

[odepaj]

The STi Brembo's are a swap for the WRX ('06-'07 TR's anyways). So what are the chances that we could use the '07 TR calipers? They are alittle smaller then the Brembo's so we may find something that works. I think the TR brakes are the same as the ver.V or VI JDM STi? Subaru 4pots.




Dustin

[YourConfused]

What are you doing home at 10pm on a sat night? looser!

[odepaj]

Originally Posted by YourConfused

What are you doing home at 10pm on a sat night? looser!

I was just getting ready to leave


Now its time for: "Working with a Hang-over"

[black beast]

Yay! HANGOVER WORK IS FUN!!!! just dont turn any lights on, or make any fast moves, or drop anything, aw hell go back to sleep!

[GreenMarine]

Believe me this stuff has all been discussed before... Search for brake upgrades and you'll find it... Short answer though - STi Brembo's bolt up to our cars but sit differently on our hubs so the STi rotors won't work. Solution? Have custom rotors made (good luck with that)... The "Subaru" red calipers would probably work with a bracket but then again, use a bracket and you'll probably need different rotors (since WRX brakes are smaller than ours)...

If you really want a set of aftermarket "multi-piston" brakes (and want to throw away alot of money) then go to http://www.revolutionbrake.com... There you'll find a few ready made kits for the SVX... I have only heard of one or two SVX's that have actually done it though...

Try to remember, most of us that origionally started out looking to do an STi big brake swap gave up after seeing that the cost wouldn't really outweigh the benifit. It would cost too much to engineer the parts. It could be done no problem, but the cost of making the parts and the benifit that would come from it just doesn't make sense... Not to mention that if you just swap your pads, brake lines and rotors then you'll already have brakes that can stop you plenty fast. So do that, the Revolution Brake kit, or go down the road of fabrication. Either way it's kinda pointless to go asking about the impreza calipers and specs since most of us haven't dealt with them and wouldn't be able to give you FACTS. For facts on the calipers and specs them you'll need to go to a sight like NASIOC and find some brake guru's. Good luck...

~ Chris

[GreenMarine]

Originally Posted by odepaj

The STi Brembo's are a swap for the WRX ('06-'07 TR's anyways). So what are the chances that we could use the '07 TR calipers? They are alittle smaller then the Brembo's so we may find something that works. I think the TR brakes are the same as the ver.V or VI JDM STi? Subaru 4pots.




Dustin

On a side note... The STi Brembos aren't a direct swap as the TR's have WRX hubs and the STi's have larger hubs... SO if you see one with STi calipers then he has either swapped hubs, or he's had an adapter plate made (just like we'd have to do)...

~ Chris

[cozykat]

Originally Posted by odepaj

I was just getting ready to leave


Now its time for: "Working with a Hang-over"

So how did it work out? I got your message at like midnight. I possibly would have been up for some drinking - oh wait I have finals this week... so yeah I'm up for drinking.. :-P

p.s. hows the job search going?

[shotgunslade]

Very interesting article in this month's Grassroots Motorsports on brake retrofits. Bottom line, if your current braking system can be put into anti-lock mode, then your rotors are big enough and your calipers are adequate. Obviously, whether or not you can do that depends on the tires you are running. If you are running 255 R-compound slicks, you might need more brakes. I'm running 245/40-17 Bridgestone RE01-R's (not quite R compound) and I can get into anti-lock mode (just barely). Changing the brake system (rotors and calipers) on the front only can throw off the braking balance for the car. Significant improvement can only be achieved if the stock front or rear brake system is significantly out of balance with the other end of the car.

Thermal mass (ability to absorb more heat for a given temperature rise) in the braking system (rotors and calipers) is really important for repetitive hard braking (the track). There is an obvious trade-off between braking system thermal mass and unsprung weight (it's all unsprung) related to handling. The SVX front calipers are medium sized, given that they are only 2 pistons.

I also seem to be using similar braking points (closer in many cases) to other faster cars (of course, they're hauling it down from higher speeds). They pass me on the straight and I'm right back with them going into the corners. They then leave me in the dust exiting the corner.

Don't go for drilled and slotted rotors. I have cracked a front drilled rotor all the way through one side wall (track overheating abuse). Get just slotted or dimpled and slotted. I'm running slotted Frozenrotors (cryo-treated). Even so, they show a pattern of hairline surface fractures from over-heating. Still going strong though.

If you are suffering fade, your need to look at your brake fluid and your pads. I'm using ATE Super Blue fluid, and Axxis Ultimate front pads, Axxis Metalmasters rear (Ultimates not available for rear). I have never suffered significant fade at the race track, although I have glazed the pads (melted the surface). This reduces your braking potential slightly and makes a funny noise when you put on the brakes, but wears off after a short time. Also, you might look at rebuilding (or having rebuilt) your calipers. There is a good chance that age has caused their operation to deviate from spec.

[odepaj]

Originally Posted by GreenMarineSVX

On a side note... The STi Brembos aren't a direct swap as the TR's have WRX hubs and the STi's have larger hubs... SO if you see one with STi calipers then he has either swapped hubs, or he's had an adapter plate made (just like we'd have to do)...

~ Chris

I watched an '07 TR owner bolt on '04 STi Brembo's. Nothing was added, Brembo's bolted right up.

But maybe that was where we get screwed ('04 STi's are 5x100). I'll ask around and see whats up, maybe I can test fit some TR 4-pots.



Dustin

[YourConfused]

Originally Posted by shotgunslade

Very interesting article in this month's Grassroots Motorsports on brake retrofits. Bottom line, if your current braking system can be put into anti-lock mode, then your rotors are big enough and your calipers are adequate. Obviously, whether or not you can do that depends on the tires you are running. If you are running 255 R-compound slicks, you might need more brakes. I'm running 245/40-17 Bridgestone RE01-R's (not quite R compound) and I can get into anti-lock mode (just barely). Changing the brake system (rotors and calipers) on the front only can throw off the braking balance for the car. Significant improvement can only be achieved if the stock front or rear brake system is significantly out of balance with the other end of the car.

Thermal mass (ability to absorb more heat for a given temperature rise) in the braking system (rotors and calipers) is really important for repetitive hard braking (the track). There is an obvious trade-off between braking system thermal mass and unsprung weight (it's all unsprung) related to handling. The SVX front calipers are medium sized, given that they are only 2 pistons.

I also seem to be using similar braking points (closer in many cases) to other faster cars (of course, they're hauling it down from higher speeds). They pass me on the straight and I'm right back with them going into the corners. They then leave me in the dust exiting the corner.

Don't go for drilled and slotted rotors. I have cracked a front drilled rotor all the way through one side wall (track overheating abuse). Get just slotted or dimpled and slotted. I'm running slotted Frozenrotors (cryo-treated). Even so, they show a pattern of hairline surface fractures from over-heating. Still going strong though.

If you are suffering fade, your need to look at your brake fluid and your pads. I'm using ATE Super Blue fluid, and Axxis Ultimate front pads, Axxis Metalmasters rear (Ultimates not available for rear). I have never suffered significant fade at the race track, although I have glazed the pads (melted the surface). This reduces your braking potential slightly and makes a funny noise when you put on the brakes, but wears off after a short time. Also, you might look at rebuilding (or having rebuilt) your calipers. There is a good chance that age has caused their operation to deviate from spec.

Nice compilation of information that all seems to be true. It's not often that I actually agree completely with things that are posted here or other places on the net. Hopefuly others read this and learn something from it.

[odepaj]

Originally Posted by YourConfused

Nice compilation of information that all seems to be true. It's not often that I actually agree completely with things that are posted here or other places on the net. Hopefuly others read this and learn something from it.

I agree with shotgunslade 100%, your brakes are adequate if you can activate the anti-lock.

I'm looking at the Subaru 4-pots not for larger rotors, but for weight savings and even pressure across the rotor. The 4-pots are lighter than our calipers (reducing unsprung weight) and having 4 pistons (2 on each side of the rotor) instead of just 2 on one side, are better balanced and will dissapate heat better along with having a greater "clamping" force to act on the rotor. Im pretty sure they also use larger pads which will help more than using larger rotors.

I'd also be looking to use the 2-pot rears, to keep the system balanced.

Again, I saw '04 Brembo's (all around) get swapped onto an '07 TR with no modifications to the calipers or hub.


Dustin

[YourConfused]

Originally Posted by odepaj

I agree with shotgunslade 100%, your brakes are adequate if you can activate the anti-lock.

I'm looking at the Subaru 4-pots not for larger rotors, but for weight savings and even pressure across the rotor. The 4-pots are lighter than our calipers (reducing unsprung weight) and having 4 pistons (2 on each side of the rotor) instead of just 2 on one side, are better balanced and will dissapate heat better along with having a greater "clamping" force to act on the rotor. Im pretty sure they also use larger pads which will help more than using larger rotors.

I'd also be looking to use the 2-pot rears, to keep the system balanced.

Again, I saw '04 Brembo's (all around) get swapped onto an '07 TR with no modifications to the calipers or hub.


Dustin

I am with you on a brake upgrade as mine can't induce the anti-lock after getting some new shoes. The only realistic option I see is just going for OT's brake package. It has good pads, rotors and lines.

[odepaj]

Well, I figured it out. The '04 STi hubs are infact different than the '05+ STi hubs.

So scratch that idea.

[TomsSVX]

word, words wording...

This has been discussed... several times over.

Yes the Brembo's bolt to our hub. Yes the radius of the caliper changes and a bigger rotor would need to be fitted. NO you cannot just get a larger diameter rotor made because it will not clear the caliper.

Shotgunslade is right 100%. If you can lock up your brakes (anti-lock kicks in) your brakes are sufficient for the street. If you experience brake fade, you need new fluid and a high boiling temp fluid must be used with a full system flush(not just a canister fill). IF and ONLY IF you are still experiencing brake fade, you should look into different pads... Ceramics are good, but their temp ranges are finicky, semi-metalics are very good but they eat rotors and dust like crazy... There are plenty of different kinds of pads, each with its own compromises to made.

Now if you have experimented with all this and your calipers are 100% it may be time to upgrade the brakes to something larger. I personally found my silver to have significant fade when I tracked it but I am also a rookie and used my brakes excessively. For a street car, the right combo of fluid/rotors/pads and good calipers will make all the difference and you will not need any kind of upgrade. For a tracked car, try doing what you can with the brakes you have, trust me, they are not as bad as they are made out to be by people who have no idea. I have driven several SVXi that can stop on a dime, the most notable would be Shotgunslade's car.

Tom

[SVXRide]

Originally Posted by TomsSVX

word, words wording...

This has been discussed... several times over.

Yes the Brembo's bolt to our hub. Yes the radius of the caliper changes and a bigger rotor would need to be fitted. NO you cannot just get a larger diameter rotor made because it will not clear the caliper.

Shotgunslade is right 100%. If you can lock up your brakes (anti-lock kicks in) your brakes are sufficient for the street. If you experience brake fade, you need new fluid and a high boiling temp fluid must be used with a full system flush(not just a canister fill). IF and ONLY IF you are still experiencing brake fade, you should look into different pads... Ceramics are good, but their temp ranges are finicky, semi-metalics are very good but they eat rotors and dust like crazy... There are plenty of different kinds of pads, each with its own compromises to made.

Now if you have experimented with all this and your calipers are 100% it may be time to upgrade the brakes to something larger. I personally found my silver to have significant fade when I tracked it but I am also a rookie and used my brakes excessively. For a street car, the right combo of fluid/rotors/pads and good calipers will make all the difference and you will not need any kind of upgrade. For a tracked car, try doing what you can with the brakes you have, trust me, they are not as bad as they are made out to be by people who have no idea. I have driven several SVXi that can stop on a dime, the most notable would be Shotgunslade's car.

Tom

I'd add that you can also bias the pads (front/back) if you really want to get tricky. This is a common practice with a lot of track and autoX racers. HAWK and other brands have pads with different "bite" characteristics.
-Bill