Pray for All

[cocacola08]

Originally posted by SVXphile
As I got home this evening, I saw pictures of President Bush visiting a mosque

I thought that when he showed up to the site in NYC with arms around firemen, that was a bold statement as well

I got this from a friend here at work.

[svxistentialist]

Must admit I liked Clinton, cigars and all, he had great ability. Have never been fond of Dubya, I think he is weak on foreign policy, and his principal interest and focus is internal. I just can't see trying to run American fiscal and economic policy as a stand-alone item without factoring in economic conditions in all world regions as a way to do business. The world has got too small for that.

However, I would be the last one to take him for a fool. Also, those who feel he was "running scared" because he reluctantly took security advice and did not return to Washington are missing the point. The security people have a job to do, so does the President. Neither of them have a right to put the leader of the country in the firing line until the agencies had a firm grasp of the threat, and how to ward it off. Calling the man a coward for acting sensibly in the country's interest is way off the mark. Doing the right thing in those circumstances is bravery of another sort, as the poet put it,
"While I, took the road less travelled by".

The man gets my vote.

Joe

[SVXphile]

<The situation interests me because of the obvious parallel with Northern Ireland. Both are [wrongly, in my opinion] stated to be religious conflicts. In fact, they are both territorial squabbles, with two distinct tribes claiming ownership of portions of land and
resource>

Joe, correct me if I am off-base here, but it has been my understanding that the differences in Northern Ireland were there BEFORE the religious moniker was placed on the problem. Am I correct? Your statement above seems to agree with that...
Don

[SVXphile]

<those who feel he was "running scared" because he reluctantly took security advice and did not return to Washington are missing the point.>

Amen. Some of these talking heads on TV are so DENSE! They cover the White House day after day and yet know nothing of the basic procedures to ensure Presidential succession. The Vice-President explained the situation extremely well on "Meet the Press" on Sunday. It had nothing to do with George W. and EVERYTHING to do with making sure our government is not decapitated by some sneak attack or terrorist plot.
My class was listening on my portable radio to West Virginia Public Radio during much of last Tuesday. When they turned to West Virginia news, they said people up in Elkins (near our Canaan Valley meet site!) were worried about an unidentified, unmarked plane circling the town. The local airport was obviously too small for this large Boeing 707-720 type plane (the latest thing in modern air travel!) and so everyone ASSUMED it was another hijacked plane. The governor ordered the evacuation of the Capitol Complex in Charleston and the WV Air National Guard was notified. The kids were all a-twitter about it, so I had to put in my two cents. "Kids," I said," I may be wrong but I think I know what that is. My guess is that the plane is called "Looking Glass" (explained on a cable channel a couple years back) and it is a airborne command post." I walked to the map on the wall showing WV and the neighboring states."In time of a national emergency this plane gets in the air and has the capability to provide the President with communication and control of all our strategic forces. Now here is Washington..." (point to map) and here is West Virginia straight to the west...see all this green area? National Forest land....the Dolly Sods Wilderness area....many miles away from any high population areas. And what little town lies right in the middle of all that? Elkins! If your old teacher were a betting man, that is what I would guess."

The story appeared in the paper the next day. When state officials first inquired of the FAA about the plane that day, they were told not to worry about it, "it was on official business". Later in the day the folks in Charleston were given a bit more detail..."it was a flying command post".

Now my point is this. If a country school teacher that watches the History/Discovery/Learning Channel knows what it is....what is wrong with this picture?
Ditto the President "running scared".....give me a break. This is one reason why a couple of those soon-to-be-dead terrorists boasted at a Florida bar that "American blood will flow tomorrow!" without a bit of fear of blowing a carefully planned multi-year plot. They probably judged us by some of our politicians and our newscasters....

[SVXphile]

<I thought that when he showed up to the site in NYC with arms around firemen, that was a bold statement as well>

Yep. Did you catch the little exchange Bush had over the bullhorn with the guy in the crowd? Classic!! Don

[svxistentialist]

Originally posted by SVXphile
<The situation interests me because of the obvious parallel with Northern Ireland. Both are [wrongly, in my opinion] stated to be religious conflicts. In fact, they are both territorial squabbles, with two distinct tribes claiming ownership of portions of land and
resource>

Joe, correct me if I am off-base here, but it has been my understanding that the differences in Northern Ireland were there BEFORE the religious moniker was placed on the problem. Am I correct? Your statement above seems to agree with that...
Don

Partly right Don,

the differences run back to the Battle of the Boyne in 1690 and beyond, when William of Orange, a Protestant ruler from the Nederlands[hence Orangemen] defeated a Catholic Papist force near Slane.

The remaining problem is largely caused by the Plantation of Ulster. This Plantation by the British dispossessed Catholic landowners and replaced them with a large amount of Protestant and Presbyterian planters from Scotland mainly. The Catholics were herded into scrubby hill farms. The rich and beautiful estates were given to the planters. It remains by and large the same to this day. If you are passing through rich pasture land in Northern Ireland, you will only see one type of flags flying on the poles[they fly a lot of flags up there] If you drive through poor bogland, the other type.

The protests in '69 started off because the Protestants who controlled all the Urban Councils at that time were giving all the housing to Protestants, while 45% of the population were Catholic. I could be wrong in this, but I don't think they even saw anything morally wrong in this. They were "just looking after their own"

Joe

[SVXphile]

Joe,
Thanks for taking the time to help me with my history. I hate to admit it, but I have been very ignorant of the roots of that problem. Would you recommend a book, that in your estimation, best explains the history of Northern Ireland? I would greatly appreciate it.
Don

[svxistentialist]

Don

I will see what might be a good reference for you. The best type would be a holistic or sociological approach to the problem as it exists in the community.

As a lot of the recent books on the subject are dry tomes on individual events[who shot whom where in 1922, and was the hit ordered, this sort of thing] They don't shed light on the actual experience of living in and with the divided communities. They were not always divided. Back in the revolt of 1798, most of the motivators of the countrywide insurgence were of Protestant stock. It is a complex web as you will have gathered.

Will get back to you with a good ref or two.

Joe

[cocacola08]

This was just posted on a forum here @ work.

NEW DELHI, India -- A Boeing 737 jetliner was hijacked Wednesday night on a domestic flight from Bombay and landed in New Delhi, a private Indian televisionstation reported.

Star News said all 54 passengers were unharmed but they remained aboard the jet, which was parked at an isolated area at Indira Gandhi International Airport. The plane was surrounded by police and commandos.

There was no word on the number of hijackers.The TV station reported that authorities opened a communications link with the hijackers.
The jet belonged to the Alliance company, a domestic subsidiary of Indian Airlines.

India has been on alert since the Sept. 11 terror attacks in the United States, inwhich hijackers seized jetliners and struck the World Trade Center and thePentagon.

Copyright © 2001, The Associated Press

[Green1995SVX]

I am bumping this thread as it was originally posted on 9/11/2001 in our forum. It provides good insight into the emotions of that day.

I certainly hope that none of us ever forget.

[dromano]

Forget? Not me. I spent yesterday and today with tears in my eyes most of the time. The resolve of We The People of this nation will not ever forget, ever.

Come after us, we will kick your ass till you cease to exist, take that to the bank or your imam!!!!!!!

Is the tide turning in jihad territory? It would appear so. Freedom is a tremendous disinfectant.

Don't attack my home, I will blow your ass off in a heart beat.....

[Ron Mummert]

I think the lesson of Vietnam is still ringing loud and clear in our ears. The Russians learned a hard lesson in Afghanistan, and I don't foresee us repeating that mistake.

Don (SVXphile)


Well.....thanks for the time capsule, Mike. Besides the remembrance of this horrific day, we can also observe the intelligence & insight exhibited by some of the "old timers", many of whom have moved on.

Note to Don - Uh....maybe next time.

Ron.

[SVXphile]

"Note to Don - Uh....maybe next time"

Yeah, well hope springs eternal.

Our problem doesn't seem to be going in and getting the bad guys.

We seem to be pretty good at that.

The problem is that we hang on too long, without handing the keys to the locals and saying "OK we cleaned your house out, now it's up to you!"

(reminds me of the lady that asked Ben Franklin what kind of government the men in Independence Hall had come up with. "A republic madam, if you can keep it!")

We are never going to fully win the hearts and minds of peoples and cultures that are so different from us in so many ways. Not everyone is ready for our kind of democracy.

Of course an outsider watching the recent goings-on in Washington may say "Thanks, but no thanks!"

Don

[httrdd]

Did not completely forget about 9/11, but there have been more local problems on my mind. The terrorists brought the floods!