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  #1  
Old 07-21-2007, 10:54 PM
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DUI perspectives

I'm looking for possible help here - no slams please.

My son got pulled for a dui last weekend. He blew a .13. He told me that he had 3-4 beers over a 2 hr dinner and drove home. That prob means that he had 4-5 beers. He's 21 and recently moved home because he was gearing up to enlist in the AF.

He works at a restaurant as a server so he's not exactly rich.

He drives a 93 Ford F150 that I just put a new engine into and is currently up for sale.

The day after it happened I went and got his truck out of impound for $200 that he didn't have. Then we went home and I told him to get my tool box and had him remove the plates. Then we drove over to the DMV and turned them in. After that I told him to call and cancell his insurance. He agreed that he couldn't afford it and didn't fuss at all.

It's his first offence. I was in another state when he called me at 2am from the back of the patrol car. No accident, No passengers, I can't figure what he was pulled over for. He said that the cop never told him. He said that the cop pulled him over, physically pulled him out of the truck, handcuffed him and told him to sit on the curb. Then the cop went to the patrol car and came back and cuffed him to a street sign, took his wallet and went back to the patrol car. Then the cop came back and did the heel toe walk and blow into the tube tests and then said that he was under arrest for impaired driving. Sounds kind of fishy to me. Also, when we got the truck out of impound there was a hassle because the cop listed the truck as an accident vehicle and that somebody was sent to the hospital. Never happened. Perhaps the cop should have been given the heel to toe and blow in the tube test?

My son checked with the AF recruiter and they said that they would still take him but that he would have to wait for 6 mos so that they would be assured that it would not be a reoccuring issue.

We talked to several attorneys and they pretty much said that he was screwed under the new laws but that they would take the case for $1500.

I'm not sure what I'd be getting for that money but everyone that I talk to says that I better get the laywer. I know that my son doesn't have the money and if I pay it I also know that I'll never see it back.

I don't just want to leave him hanging - he is my son after all even though I might want to kick his butt from one end of the state to the other.

I told him today that this is going to cost about $15,000 when the insurance hike and fees are all said and done with.

I guess that I've already resigned myself to the fact that I'll pay the bill and probably hunt him down a scooter because I'm already tired of hauling his butt back and forth to work.

The part that I don't like is that he's not feeling any pain over this. I'm doing all of the leg work and checking into the lawyers and paying all of the bills. He could care less. He's slightly inconvenienced. What a crappy situation.

Sorry for being so wordy.
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  #2  
Old 07-21-2007, 11:43 PM
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I know he is your son and you don't want anything bad to happen to him but.... Could he possibly not be feeling remorse because he knows you will bail him out of the trouble he has found? Try not to get mad at me and let me play devils advocate for a moment. It sounds like, from your story that is, his only inconvenience was having to give up his truck that he was probably going to sell anyway when he joined the AF and a phone call to you. Meanwhile your inconvenience is somewhere between $5,000 and $15,000 dollars and a lot of time and headache. That being said.....

We all have to be held accountable for our actions. If he gets off with little or no trouble to himself, you could be setting a precedent for many DUI's to come. We all make mistakes at 21, but if there is no accountability, we don't learn from those mistakes. You definitely need to help him with a lawyer. There are two legal systems in this country. One for people with private attorneys and one for people with public defenders. You absolutely want your son in the first group but I don't think that a weekend or two in jail would hurt him too bad and he would without a doubt show a little remorse over that.

I know that I have gone on a bit here, but this is a serious situation. I think you should try to step outside the situation and assess things looking at it without the "My son's in trouble" emotion.

As far as the cop goes, they can make their own rules in today's world. I have a friend that was arrested and when he told the judge that he was never marandized, the judge told him he watched too much TV.
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  #3  
Old 07-22-2007, 01:30 AM
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ensteele ensteele is offline
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I would agree with the previous post. I think he needs to take more of the ownership of this, after all, it is his DWI. If he is bailed out every time he has a problem, he will not think things through next time and may be in the same situation. It is hard to stand by and let your son take the consequences, but that may be the best for him. If he doesn't take ownership of it, it has done nothing to improve his behavior. It sounds like you have been through much more than he has and you did not do this. I hope everything comes out ok, but there is a lot more in the future before this is all over. Good luck.
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  #4  
Old 07-22-2007, 02:35 AM
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I hear what you guys are saying and I agree 100%. The question is, what accountability do I get him to shoulder? He's got no money - sure, I could set up a spreadsheet and keep track of the dollars and tell him that it's a loan that has to be paid back but honestly, I'd just be kidding myself there.

I could tell him that he has to set appointments with lawyers and figure out which would be the best way to go but hell, I don't know which way to go so how could I expect him to?

We live too far out of town to tell him to walk or ride a bike to where he needs to go so that doesn't get me anywhere.

As a side note, I would rate my son 9 out of 10 on a maturity scale. He's almost always level headed and usually thinks about consequences before he takes action. He's lived on his own for a couple of years and has never asked for money or anything else for that matter. I know for a fact that he would go hungry before asking for help. And he hasn't been in any other trouble that I know of.

He hasn't asked for any help with this matter but I'm stepping in because of the serious nature of the issue.

Then there is the Mama crying on my shoulder that her baby is in trouble...and I gotta admit, I'll do whatever it takes to see her smile.

We've already discussed community service and gone down to the local fire station to see if he could help out there. Which would be good because he wants to get into search and rescue in the military. They said that he could work his time off there when he finds out how much time he needs to serve.

The saying that 'whatever doesn't kill us just makes us stronger' keeps coming to mind.
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Old 07-22-2007, 02:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by budbaer
Try not to get mad at me and let me play devils advocate for a moment.
The thought never entered my mind. I appreciate any comments or thought that you guys might offer. There's a lot of other stuff going on and my emotions are just about worn out. We just put the Mother in law in a home. That's gotta be the toughest thing that I've ever done. Now we're working on fixing her house up to sell. It's been in the family since 1927. The grandparents built it. Nice house but it she just couldn't maintain it for the last several years. The septic leech field failed so we had to go through lawyers to hook up to a sewer system to the tune of $5k so far. The AC failed $800. A toilet broke upstairs and ahh, this story is too just too long. I see no light at the end of this tunnel yet. But I'm still trudging along.

And you know what else? My poor subaru has been sitting in the garage for over 4 months now just because I haven't had the time to give her the attention that she needs.
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Old 07-22-2007, 04:43 AM
XT6Wagon XT6Wagon is offline
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Its possible that the cop screwed up bad enough that the lawyer can make it go away in a BIG hurry. If the officer signed his name to a statement that is easy to prove false, it more or less quickly demolishes thier case. Since it was reported as an accedent, with someone HOSPITALISED, if that is disproven, what will the judge say if the officer claims that your son was drinking? The officer clearly made up the rest of it so...

as far as the rest of it, it sucks but let the airforce sort it/him out. They got plenty of practice doing so.
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  #7  
Old 07-22-2007, 10:11 AM
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#1. If you son wishes to pursue a career in the AF, he needs to find out how much of an impact such a record would be count against him.

#2. You may need to sit down and talk with your son in regards to his situation. See if he understands the situation he's in and ask him what he plans to do. If he wants a lawyer to fight it (and explain why it would be good to do so) versus just pleading guilty and taking the hit and record. Let him make his own decisions. He is 21.

If he wants to get a lawyer, make sure that he's aware of how much it costs. If he can't afford it, you may want to suggest that you could loan him the money, but he needs to understand that he needs to pay you back. Write a contract or loan agreement if needed so that if he decides not to pay you back after a certain amount of time, yank his arse to court.

#3. You are pretty much screwed for giving him rides. I'd suggest telling him to find something else to do that's closer or where he could actually ride a bike like you said. 6 month wait for the AF is going to suck unless the lawyer can get the case thrown out.

Obviously if he ever makes that mistake again, I'd say let him fry because you've done all you can. Like others said, maybe the AF will teach him some responsibility...or the Fire Dept.
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  #8  
Old 07-22-2007, 11:35 AM
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I faced a similar problem shortly before i entered the airforce. I went into the court, on my own, and flat out told the truth. I said I made a mistake and executed poor judgement. I agree with whatever sentence that he assigns, however i was schedule to leave for the airforce in a few months. If i was charged, i would not be able to enter the military for a significantly longer period of time, if they'd let me in at all. I had my military paperwork and such with me, the judge looked at it, and they ended up letting me off with a slap on the wrist, and said if i was pulled over for anything, they'd tear me up.

I don't know that it would be similar with your case, howwever, that's my experience. I wish you and your son the best of luck.

Also, the courts tend to me bore lenient on military folks, unless your in a military town, in which case they're tired of dealing with military idiots thinking they're above the law.
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Old 07-22-2007, 11:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by budbaer
As far as the cop goes, they can make their own rules in today's world. I have a friend that was arrested and when he told the judge that he was never marandized, the judge told him he watched too much TV.
Sorry to slightly hijack here, but I hear this all the time. Do you or your friend even know the two conditions that must be present for miranda? When does a reasonable suspicion rise to probable cause? What are the factors involved in implied consent? When is a warrantless search authorized? Did you friend ask for the phone call, which by the way you are not entitled to? The judge would know, so it does sound like he watches to much TV. Like the rest of the idiots who watch CSI and think you can get fingerprints off a doorknob in a Las Vegas Casino, after 25 other people used the same door.

As for the DUI, what is written on the tow sheet for the vehicle has no impact on the prima facia involved in the DUI. If he blew a .13, and NC is one of the 40 states that use .08, he is the second tier as a first time offender. Get an attorney and be reasonable and non-argumentative. Have your son show remorse and see about a plea. In PA you can go into the ARD program for first offenders and just pay fines, no jail time. After he completes it, it gets cleared from his record. But ARD is a silver bullet, once and done. You can't ever go into it again. See if NC has the same type program. Good luck. As for the USAF, I spent 11 years in the USAF-R, and a DUI won't exclude him from entry, the 6 months is to make sure he doesn't get jail time, but it will affect his career choices and security clearance. No Security Police, K-9, Combat Arms, Special Forces, Para Rescue, etc... he should still be able to get a flight line job or one of the many other non armed jobs in the USAF.
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Old 07-22-2007, 01:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Royal Tiger
Sorry to slightly hijack here, but I hear this all the time. Do you or your friend even know the two conditions that must be present for miranda? When does a reasonable suspicion rise to probable cause? What are the factors involved in implied consent? When is a warrantless search authorized? Did you friend ask for the phone call, which by the way you are not entitled to? The judge would know, so it does sound like he watches to much TV. Like the rest of the idiots who watch CSI and think you can get fingerprints off a doorknob in a Las Vegas Casino, after 25 other people used the same door.

Since you have already hijacked the thread and called me out, I feel obligated to respond in my defense. First off, I do not know all the circumstances surrounding my friends arrest. It's really none of my business, I was just relaying the statement the judge made. Secondly, I have never watched a single episode of any CSI show, but they do have a great sound track. Townshend Rules! The last cop show I watched was either Miami Vice or Hill Street Blues, back when I was in high school.

I just wrote an epic about changes in the American police forces over the past 15 or so years, but this is the wrong forum for that.

pghopkins, I wish you all the luck over the next 6 months to a year. I don't really drink anymore so I felt like I was out of the woods but this shows me that as my fiances boys grow up, I could still find myself in the middle of the DUI mess that I have avoided all my life.
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Old 07-22-2007, 01:58 PM
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Ah don't be too hard on him unless you've never driven after having 1 too many. Its a different world out there today as far as DUIs go (not that its a bad thing). Point is he did a wrong thing but its also something that if spun right he won't do again. If on the other hand he does have a drinking problem do you really think that paying about $10k over the next 5 years will help him overcome that problem. Chances are it will only make it worse without guidence and help.

I'm guessing that NC is still similar to PA in that it offers a 1st time offense program for most mistamenors like this one (in PA its called Accelerated Rehabilitation Disposition). Basically it offers somewhat of an out in that you go to classes, see and pay for alcohol counseling or at least a consultation- that despends on the indie counseling service evaluation. His health insurance may even pay for this or at least a portion of this. After you've completed the program and remain out of trouble for a few years your record is expunged (still there but not there for employment issues as you were never convicted of a mist. This is probably his best route if you have it there still.

Hopefully your son didn't listen to ya about dropping his insurance. DO NOT DROP IT!!!! Simply keep the insurance for the period in which he will loose his license (unless it'll be like 2 years or so). Chances are good the insurance company won't find out about it if he gets into the ARD style program like I said about earlier. Just keep renewing it until the period is over. If you drop it his insurance will go up 2-3x for the next 3-5 years (each state is different how far they can go back).

As for maranda rights. They are null and void if he's legally drunk! You won't get out of it 99% of the time regardless. DUI has quite the stigma and no judge wants to be the one to let someone of who turns around and celebrates by getting plastered and killing a family of 4.

I agree that a lawyer is the best route (esp if you're not a legally minded person as even the ARD programs have their downsides. Get a lawyer that specializes in DUI cases. $1500 is cheap for a lawyer for this kind of case. Most around here charge about $2500 or so. Be sure to talk to the judge about his entering the AF as with either a conviction or an ARD program would require him to most likely have probation and not be allowed to leave the state without permission.

Most of all you're son needs your emotional support at this point. Financial is great too but money is just that money. As was said before you won't see much back from what you spend but it can be something that brings ya closer and ensures that something like this doesn't happen again.
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Old 07-22-2007, 04:20 PM
SVXMAN2001 SVXMAN2001 is offline
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Response to Budbaer

The judge was right, you are NOT automatically entitled to a mirandizing. Rights are verbally given when two factors are present 1) You are arrested AND 2) You are about to be questioned.

A lot of us get the wrong impression where we see the show "Cops" reading rights the second the put the cuffs on. Technically it isn't wrong. However, it isn't necessary either if questioning never takes place.

That's my public service for the evening...
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Old 07-22-2007, 04:54 PM
92svx95 92svx95 is offline
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When i had my DWI, i had a lawyer. He really didnt do anything for me except plead no contest and make my time in court 2 hrs longer each visit. If your son cant afford a Lawyer get a Public Defender they are free and will plead no contest for you. Only good thing about a lawyer is once they arrive the judge sees you first.Problem is my lawyer was never on time. That was my experience out in CA. Im sorry for your son and hopefully he learns from this lesson. They say you dont need a lawyer in your first DUI but you'll' need one for your 2nd, 3rd, and so on. I was lucky to be alive and im thankful no one was hurt.
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Old 07-22-2007, 05:04 PM
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sorry to be harsh... but no one should drive after drinking... not saying I have never done it... but it shouldn't be done... I guess some of us have to learn the hard way and you should enforce that. He is 21 and he needs to make decisions for himself and pay the price when he makes the wrong ones. I have been living on my own since I was 19 and everything I do is under my own guidance. It gets sketchy sometimes but you really need to let him go and start on his own. My parents did the right thing if I may judge by putting me out on my own and I must thank them for that. He will get out of this eventually and the AF will only help his responsibilities and discipline. If I were you, I would tell him that he needs to pull himself up out of the hole he dug in order for him to get a taste of the real world. I am a server in a restaurant too and I am 22 living in Philadelphia on my own. There is no one to pay my bills here except me... If I can do it, anyone can... esp. with my spending habbits (take note of the signature ). You might not like the empty nest at first... but you will learn to love the company when he visits... good luck and I hope for the best for both of you

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Old 07-22-2007, 06:09 PM
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Thanks for all of the support. Things are already looking up for today. I do expect this ride to be like a long roller coaster ride.

TomsSVX, Cale has been living on his own for 3 years now and just moved back because the place that he was living in is being torn down to make room for condos. He didn't want to sign a lease elsewhere because he was planning on leaving for the AF.

Benebob, I think that you're right about the tags and insurance but it's too late now. I thought that it might be a wrong move because there's always a chance that he won't be convicted at all.

On the up side, Cale has friends coming to the house to pick him up to go out and he's bringing them in and introducing them to us. It's nice to meet some of his crowd. The ones that I have met have been very supportive and seem to be pretty good kids.

Cale has been doing more around the house-cleaning, yardwork...he even brought dinner home for us tonight. He's a lot more talkative whereas before, he was very quiet, hard to get a word out of him.

He's applied for closer jobs with the hope of better pay and benefits and has asked for help on the applications.

He even applied for a job where I work at Procter & Gamble and asked me to look it over. There was a place on the app where he was asked if any relatives worked there and he checked yes and where it asked who, he put, 'my Mom and Dad'. I just had to lmao at that one.

I talked to him about the bills and he said that he's fully aware of the pains that I'm feeling and that he intends to pay every cent back plus some.

So, for now, I feel much closer to him. I let him know that His Mom and I are there for him, his sister is coming in for a visit this weekend to show her support, and he's got a pretty good network of friends.
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