Diesel power for Subaru?

[-JJ-]

Yep they are lookin into it, check it.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,3397729a30,00.html

I recon its about time subaru advanced with this sort of stuff, in line with its competition

[Mr. Pockets]

A '30 percent reduction in fuel economy,' huh? Sounds like a winner!

I would just forgo the hybrids if I was Subaru. A good diesel will do a better job, and cheaper.

Of course, I imagine that the manufacturers are all waiting for somebody else to try it first. Let somebody else take the risk, but show that diesels don't have to be the catastrophe they were last time. Pioneers get the arrows, settlers get the land.

[Beav]

In regard to future technology I'd be putting my money on very small turbo diesel hybrid tech. Many cars require less than 20hp to maintain 60mph. A small turbo diesel could do that easily but acceleration would suck, that's why it would be a hybrid. The electric motor would kick in at the low end for more grunt and the diesel would be rated for cruising speeds. Add in bio and reclaimed veggie oil fuels (don't forget the dead cats.) Expect mpg in the 70-80mpg range. Those interested in investing should keep their eyes open....

This IS going to be the next technology. Diesel fuel systems are now capable of employing electronically 'shaped' injection patterns that reduce/almost eliminate rattle and noise at idle/low speeds. Diesel emissions (particulate) are under control. The full hybrid technology allows an ingenious, single planetary trans that uses generator/electric motor power and load to create an 'electronic CVT' or eCVT. There are so many plusses (I was going to say positives but I didn't want to confuse anyone ;-) to this tech it's incredible, even though it's in its infancy.

[ensteele]

What about hydrogen? That may be the winner in the long run. Some scientists in Denmark have found a way to store hydrogen in solid form and can make it very stable. This is a major problem with this fuel - getting it into stable form. I don't know if we will see any of this technology in the near future, but as far as pollution, this one will be the cleanest of the fuels.

[-JJ-]

in relation to small motor tech, i was reaserching the new subaru R2, it has a 660cc four cyl enigne and CVT, the sports model comes with a supercharger, its sposed to get 22.5 kms a liter, thats 4.44 Liters per 100Kms!!! it comes in AWD aswel, it would be such a fun little car to drive. (i wouldnt trade tho )

[Beav]

Originally Posted by ensteele

What about hydrogen? That may be the winner in the long run. Some scientists in Denmark have found a way to store hydrogen in solid form and can make it very stable. This is a major problem with this fuel - getting it into stable form. I don't know if we will see any of this technology in the near future, but as far as pollution, this one will be the cleanest of the fuels.

Nova aired a segment a couple weeks ago outlining the difficulties with hydrogen. You might be able to search the PBS site and see if they have it available. From the trades I've been reading it's looking like a 'not in our lifetime' alternative. I think most OEMs have downgraded it to a 'keeping an eye open' technology and looking to make their bets elsewhere.

[Weebitob]

Originally Posted by Beav

In regard to future technology I'd be putting my money on very small turbo diesel hybrid tech. Many cars require less than 20hp to maintain 60mph. A small turbo diesel could do that easily but acceleration would suck, that's why it would be a hybrid. The electric motor would kick in at the low end for more grunt and the diesel would be rated for cruising speeds. Add in bio and reclaimed veggie oil fuels (don't forget the dead cats.) Expect mpg in the 70-80mpg range. Those interested in investing should keep their eyes open....

This IS going to be the next technology. Diesel fuel systems are now capable of employing electronically 'shaped' injection patterns that reduce/almost eliminate rattle and noise at idle/low speeds. Diesel emissions (particulate) are under control. The full hybrid technology allows an ingenious, single planetary trans that uses generator/electric motor power and load to create an 'electronic CVT' or eCVT. There are so many plusses (I was going to say positives but I didn't want to confuse anyone ;-) to this tech it's incredible, even though it's in its infancy.

How about a twincharged direct injected diesel electric hybrid? Now that is something people would consider an option for the WRX.

Perhaps people would be happy if it can with a CVT with simulated 5 or even 6 speed sports shift.

[Beav]

Originally Posted by Weebitob

How about a twincharged direct injected diesel electric hybrid? Now that is something people would consider an option for the WRX.

Perhaps people would be happy if it can with a CVT with simulated 5 or even 6 speed sports shift.

Perhaps they would be happy enough if it was just faster and didn't care if it had a simulated shift. Who cares if they can feel it shift? Shifting takes time.

High performance and economy don't go together. When's the last time you heard someone mention the great economy of a Ferrari?

[Weebitob]

Originally Posted by Beav

Perhaps they would be happy enough if it was just faster and didn't care if it had a simulated shift. Who cares if they can feel it shift? Shifting takes time.

High performance and economy don't go together. When's the last time you heard someone mention the great economy of a Ferrari?

But some would want some more control over their automobile and this also includes the transmission. In other words some people would want to have control over when and how they shift, even if they really don't have and even in technicals terms probably doesn't need it.

Its also good for people who want an automatic transmission but feel or would like to have a manual at some point. In other words even though its true a CVT tranny doesn't need a sports shift, some people might sometimes desire the feel of one.

Also if VW got a twincharged 1.4l diesel to go 0-60 in 8 seconds flat, imagine the performance you can get in a 2.5l. Sure it might not rival the gasoline equivalent in terms of performance, but it would appeal to people who wants something that can beat it in terms of fuel economy while still retaining some of the sportiness and as much of the utility, for the thule carriers.

Come to think of it a 2.5l direct injected twincharged diesel electric hybrid might be more of a hit with the Forester or perhaps even a 3.0l 6 cyl varient can be much needed in the Tribeca.

[svxsubaru1]

Originally Posted by Weebitob

But some would want some more control over their automobile and this also includes the transmission. In other words some people would want to have control over when and how they shift, even if they really don't have and even in technicals terms probably doesn't need it.

Its also good for people who want an automatic transmission but feel or would like to have a manual at some point. In other words even though its true a CVT tranny doesn't need a sports shift, some people might sometimes desire the feel of one.

The only reason i prefer a manule over a auto is the lack of a torq converter and i can usally kepp the car in the power band better than a auto. If the CVT tranny was properly set up then it should either be at the best part of the power band or the most efficent RPM for cruizing. There is no point to fell the ineficancy of a shift.

[mikecg]

Originally Posted by Mr. Pockets

A '30 percent reduction in fuel economy,' huh? Sounds like a winner!

I would just forgo the hybrids if I was Subaru. A good diesel will do a better job, and cheaper.

Of course, I imagine that the manufacturers are all waiting for somebody else to try it first. Let somebody else take the risk, but show that diesels don't have to be the catastrophe they were last time. Pioneers get the arrows, settlers get the land.

Wouldnt an increase in fuel economy be better??

I would just forgo the hybrids if I was Subaru. A good diesel will do a better job, and cheaper.

Agreed. A new diesel Golf will get you 45-50 mpg. Hybrids while becoming very popular in the last few years are basically a stop-gap technology until something better [ hydrogen cars] can be perfected and mass produced at a reasonable cost. The biggest problem with hybrid technology is the replacement cost of the battery packs that currently have a hopeful life span of about seven years. The replacement cost of the battery packs are in excess of 5,000 dollars including installation. This figure is an estimate on my part, because, Toyota will not quote a price on a Prius battery pack [as of two months ago when I asked them for a price] because they said no one needs one yet. In my opinion, they don't want to scare away potential Prius customers. This additional cost factor alone far out-weights the five to seven MPG increase a Prius gets over a Diesel Golf over both vehicles life-span. I would imagine the cost factor of owning a hybrid Civic would be very similar to the Prius. Of course, the cool factor comes in to play in many people decision to purchase a Prius or hybrid Civic over a diesel Golf or Jetta.


I am totally in to hydrogen technology and some hydrogen cars currently exist on the worlds highways. There is a significant amount of research underway now to make the technology more viable,meaning cheaper. The modern internal combustion engine, fueled with gasoline or diesel, can be converted to run on gaseous hydrogen. However, as some of you know the most efficient use of hydrogen involves the use of fuel cells [very expensive with current technology] driving electric motors instead of a diesel or gasoline engine. Hydrogen reacts with oxygen inside the fuel cells which produces electricity to power the electric motors which are placed as close to the wheel they are powering as possible. One of the primary areas of current research is hydrogen storage,in trying to increase the range of hydrogen vehicles while reducing the weight,energy consumption,and complexity of the storage systems;this is a major hurdle that must be overcome. Within ten to fifteen years these problems will all be solved and hydrogen cars will rule the roads. With hydrogen power being offered only in the most expensive luxury cars at first. But, in time, as the technology become cheaper, mass production of hydrogen technology takes over and a hydrogen refueling and repair infrastructure is firmly in place the internal combustion engine will go the way of the dinosaur. With only treasured antiques being allowed to operated on the highway at an extremely high tax rate. They along with numerous museum pieces will be the only vehicles left with an internal combustion engine.

[Weebitob]

Proof that a direct injected turbo diesel with an accompanying electric motor can be fast as well as efficient.

[Beav]

Look into the different types of hybrid usage. Partial hybrids aren't woth the spit they're made with. Also, some hybrids are so small they may as well be fully electric. The old diesel Rabbit pickups with aftermarket turbos routinely delivered 70+mpg but we're talking a five gallon bucket with an engine. The Golf, with a well engineered full hybrid system should be able to deliver 70-80mpg in town. That's not worth kicking out of bed just because hydrogen or some other future technology is coming twenty years down the road.