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  #31  
Old 04-18-2004, 03:12 PM
alacrity024
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Quote:
Originally posted by Shadow248
Saturn is a value/dependability marque, not a performance marque...
true enough.. i see plenty of ancient saturns driving around, looking no more than 4 years old..

ancient neons?

....anyone?
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  #32  
Old 04-18-2004, 03:17 PM
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immortal_suby immortal_suby is offline
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I had a girl at work ask me to do a tune up on her saturn w/ 100k miles. I told her that although I am capable of the job, there is no way in hell I would touch that ticking time bomb of a car.
I had to explain to her that at 100k miles I am confident she is about to run into more problems than she could ever imagine, and I , being potentially the last person to open her hood, did not want to be responsible or accountable for every one of them.
Maybe you both have had different experience, but everyone I know in my chicane sampling of friends has been killed by poor saturn reliability.
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  #33  
Old 04-18-2004, 03:30 PM
Chicane Chicane is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Shadow248
. Perhaps the people that bought redlines have owned neons before and know better than to buy another one.
Could you please tell me what is so unreliable/horribly designed on the neon? They are extremely reliable, in fact, I've had to do more maintenence on my SVX than I have had to do on my neon. They had a headgasket DESIGN fault in 1995, when the car debuted. The headgasket was too thin in one area, and when the aluminum head and iron block cooled off, it would fail. They redesigned the headgasket, and made it out of a different material, the new gasket called an MLS (multi layered steel) gasket. This was installed in all 1997.5 and up neons. The new MLS gaskets DO NOT FAIL. So seriously, what's up? I know tons of people who beat the living crap out of their neons, and they don't fail. Heck, I beat mine pretty hard. I know guys who installed turbo kits on 110k engines, and it works great! Neons running 13s naturally aspirated with only bolt ons! Neons in the 12s with nitrous , and even deeper with turbos! And, I'd like to point out that neons did EXTREMELY EXTREMELY well at the GRM 2004 dollar challenge. One ran a 13.0, and the other ran a 13.5..... in the autocross, a neon placed THIRD, and both neons finished a pretty high ranking, one in the top 10, the other only one spot better than the SVX that competed.... so seriously, could you back up your statements please?

- Rob
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  #34  
Old 04-18-2004, 03:33 PM
Chicane Chicane is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by alacrity024
ancient neons?

....anyone?
I see them as often as a I see 2003 SVXs. Why? There are no ancient neons. 1st gen neons were produced from 1995-1999, and they all look the same... and they don't look very dated. The 2000s are still being produced. Hence, the only way you could tell if a 1st gen is a 1995, is pretty much by the steering wheel....

- Rob
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  #35  
Old 04-18-2004, 03:35 PM
Chicane Chicane is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by immortal_suby
but everyone I know in my chicane sampling of friends has been killed by poor saturn reliability.
Ditto. I wouldn't buy a saturn, some of their powerplants are still using only 2 valves per cylinder!

- Rob
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  #36  
Old 04-18-2004, 03:40 PM
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Chiketkd Chiketkd is offline
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I have to agree with Chicane on this point. From talking to owners of SVX's and reading many reviews & long-term tests by magazines, the SVX isn't an unreliable car, but owners of Neons and Saturns have far fewer problems...and when they do have problems, it's a cheap fix!

-Chike


Quote:
Originally posted by Chicane
Could you please tell me what is so unreliable/horribly designed on the neon? They are extremely reliable, in fact, I've had to do more maintenence on my SVX than I have had to do on my neon.
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  #37  
Old 04-18-2004, 09:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Chicane
Could you please tell me what is so unreliable/horribly designed on the neon? They are extremely reliable, in fact, I've had to do more maintenence on my SVX than I have had to do on my neon.
Hey man, i've had to do more maintenance on Mandi's SVX than i've had to do on ANY single car EVER. Go figure.

I don't really want to get into another "everyone i know with a neon" argument, so i'm going to stay out of it and just say by my experience and the experience of those around me, the neon has not shown itself to be a dependable car.

Quote:
Originally posted by Chicane
Ditto. I wouldn't buy a saturn, some of their powerplants are still using only 2 valves per cylinder!

- Rob
Yeah can you believe it? How dare they use engines that are powerful, great on gas, and so simple in design that they can still be fixed by your grandfather in his garage! Someone needs to do something about this!

Quote:
Originally posted by Chiketkd
I have to agree with Chicane on this point. From talking to owners of SVX's and reading many reviews & long-term tests by magazines, the SVX isn't an unreliable car, but owners of Neons and Saturns have far fewer problems...and when they do have problems, it's a cheap fix!

-Chike
I can't even tell you the number of saturns i've seen that have 200,000 or more miles and have never even had the engine touched for anything more than routine maintenance. Three of my good friends all have cars that fit that description as daily drivers. They honestly are very dependable long lasting cars. Not that the SVX has tons of engine problems...actually it's the rest of the car that's the problem. Mandi's enigine has endured heavy heavy use and given her no problems. But everything else is breaking.
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  #38  
Old 04-18-2004, 11:45 PM
Jimsbaby
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ok so if body styling counts as is does with our funny windows to some svxers or at least added to the fun of the car i wouldnt buy a neon unless they did something to make it look alot better the saturn on the other hand isnt that bad looking...maybe just my taste but i've never seen a decent looking neon any body kit any year any condition and around here alot of the 1st generation neons dont have much paint that holds to the car (dont know what they did to fix this maybe used real paint and not washable paint?? but i hope they fixed that too) another cheap good looking car cavs arent that bad and are very cheap and parts to make it faster than a neon are out there for there new powerplant...keep it coming GM (american cars=cheaper insurance)

Jim
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  #39  
Old 04-19-2004, 06:24 AM
Chicane Chicane is offline
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Cavaliers have always been dogs compared to neons... neons can run high 15s without any mods whatsoever. As for neon paint, that was 2 colors, the factory messed up... lapis blue, and white..both of which were not applied correctly for the first year or so. As for neons not looking good, the coupe looks pretty damn good in my opinion:




Nice body lines, UNLIKE the saturns, which have horrid bodylines. GM designers..... oh yeah.

- Rob
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  #40  
Old 04-19-2004, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Chicane
Cavaliers have always been dogs compared to neons... neons can run high 15s without any mods whatsoever. As for neon paint, that was 2 colors, the factory messed up... lapis blue, and white..both of which were not applied correctly for the first year or so. As for neons not looking good, the coupe looks pretty damn good in my opinion:




Nice body lines, UNLIKE the saturns, which have horrid bodylines. GM designers..... oh yeah.

- Rob
wow looks like a geo. i want one!

actually, i think wrx's look just as ulgy as the neon.
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  #41  
Old 04-19-2004, 10:59 AM
Shadow248 Shadow248 is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Chicane
Cavaliers have always been dogs compared to neons... neons can run high 15s without any mods whatsoever.
We've been over this one already...

http://www.subaru-svx.net/forum/show...5&pagenumber=2

In that thread I noted that Car&Driver did not find the neon to be faster than the cavalier. Not even close really. Automobile Magazine found a comparable separation between the newer iterations of the cars...

So I don't quite see where you get that from.

Quote:
Originally posted by Chicane
As for neon paint, that was 2 colors, the factory messed up... lapis blue, and white..both of which were not applied correctly for the first year or so.
Paint is a very tricky thing, very few companies are without their screwups in this area...Black GM paint from 1992-1996 was absolutely miserable. They switced to a new violet base and it's a dream now...though if you compare GM's newer black to just about any other black under a fluorescent light, it will appear very dark blue. Kinda neat I think.

Quote:
Originally posted by Chicane
Nice body lines, UNLIKE the saturns, which have horrid bodylines. GM designers..... oh yeah.
Subjective comment...can't really argue about this cause you are certainly entitled to your opinion. I agree with most of the others in this thread...the neon has never been an attractive car in my eyes, and Saturns, though not the greatest looking vehicles out there, are at least attractive. The sales numbers seem to agree with that sentiment.
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  #42  
Old 04-19-2004, 06:46 PM
Chicane Chicane is offline
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You are smoking crack.

Here's the link:

http://neon.atsweb.net/Dodge_Neon_RT.html

Notice the neon kicking saturn/civic/cavy ass.

- Rob
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  #43  
Old 04-19-2004, 07:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Chicane
You are smoking crack.

Here's the link:

http://neon.atsweb.net/Dodge_Neon_RT.html

Notice the neon kicking saturn/civic/cavy ass.

- Rob

what i've been saying all along: "quality control remains a concern."

fast or not, its still a Neon (or Cavalier, Saturn, <insert cheaply made econobox here>)
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  #44  
Old 04-19-2004, 08:34 PM
Chicane Chicane is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Landshark



what i've been saying all along: "quality control remains a concern."

fast or not, its still a Neon (or Cavalier, Saturn, <insert cheaply made econobox here>)
I've never said otherwise. In fact, the main reason I sold my neon was it's lack of options and junk interior (which, I might add, seems like a mercedes after being inside a j-body).

- Rob
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  #45  
Old 04-19-2004, 09:39 PM
Shadow248 Shadow248 is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Chicane
You are smoking crack.

Here's the link:

http://neon.atsweb.net/Dodge_Neon_RT.html

Notice the neon kicking saturn/civic/cavy ass.

- Rob
How about we use neutral testers? If I started listing the Chevy sites that show cavaliers that beat neons, i'd never get to sleep tonight. Instead let's use some reviewers that we can (at least partially) trust. The folks at Car&Driver hardly have unbiased opinions about cars, but numbers are numbers, and i see no reason that they would take the Cavalier over the neon or vice versa, because they are both American cars and according to C&D, both DA DEVIL. So I think we can trust them. Automobile magazine has shown itself to be very unbiased and a very respectable publication that hasn't been neutered by advertisers. So I definetly trust them. Both reviewers say the Cavalier is faster, so show me some third party evidence that shows otherwise.

Quote:
Originally posted by Landshark
what i've been saying all along: "quality control remains a concern."

fast or not, its still a Neon (or Cavalier, Saturn, <insert cheaply made econobox here> )
...or Impreza...


Quote:
Originally posted by Chicane
I've never said otherwise. In fact, the main reason I sold my neon was it's lack of options and junk interior (which, I might add, seems like a mercedes after being inside a j-body).

- Rob
That comment is ironic in so many ways. First, you used Mercedes and Neon in the same sentence, which doesn't exactly build confidence. Second, it's great that you used MB as a "benchmark" in your remark...they have scored near the bottom in just about every quality/reliability comparison that has been given. Sure they are nice cars, fast, stylish (to some), and very comfortable...but reliable and high quality they are not. So to say that being in the neon is like being in a Mercedes compared to a Cavalier is actually not far from the truth. In both cases you are driving an overrated underbuilt timebomb.

Last edited by Shadow248; 04-19-2004 at 09:46 PM.
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