Bush administration at it again

[sicksubie]

A quote from my buddies letter: " We are here for a purpose and we are doing it. That purpose is #1 protect our families back home, #2 We have freed an entire nation. Has it gone perfectly according to plan? (Heck) no, but what war does? There have been bumps ( we have lost guys in my own unit) in the road, but we will push on until we are no longer needed. Over all the attitude of the Iraqi people is so-so. It depends what section that you are in. There are some places where we get invited in for dinner and the people are incredibly happy. Then there are the places where you are constantly looking over your shoulder. It varies greatly. Yes, guys have died over here, but name me another war where a country was taken down with under 3,000 killed. It is sad that there will be a lot of guys not coming home, but they answered the ultimate call of duty and did it proudly."

[sicksubie]

Originally Posted by lhopp77

To answer your question, I spent 5 years in Vietnam and I did agree with our mission even though it was not a direct threat to our country. However, the continued spread of Communism WAS a threat to our country and our way of life and this was a war to stop that spread. (I might add that it was a Democrat president that got us in the war) I very rarily admit to this or even talk about it, but I have been awarded the Silver Star, 2 Bronze Stars w/"V" and 3 Purple Hearts. Yes, I have been there and done that and have given my blood for our freedom and our way of life and don't regret one single moment of it.

Lee

Ihopp77, Thank you from the bottom of my heart. I salute you.

[demonsvx]

Originally Posted by sicksubie

DemonSVX, quick question, let me get this straight. The war in Iraq is unjust so you say because they haven't attacked us yet. So, am I to ascertain that you would rather wait until after we are attacked by terrorists who were supplied with nerve gas from Iraq? You cannot argue that they did not have nerve gas and were not afraid to use it. Every single major news agency (MSNBC, ABC, NBC, Fox, BBC, CNN) has reported the finding of nerve gas along with the evidence that they had tested it (on the Kurds). Maybe I'm not understanding you correctly, but your approach seems kind of careless. I'm just trying to understand how you are approaching this so please explain. Also, I am glad that you are at least a decent person to talk to. Not like other people who I can picture screaming obscenities as they type.

Electrophil, just so you know I have to buddies that are currently in Iraq. One is in the Army the other is in the Marines. They both know exactly why they are there and can't stand people like you. I printed one of the other anti-Bush threads in which you were so eloquently stating your distaste for Bush and they read it and were utterly disgusted. To disagree is your right, but come on, do it in a the fashion that is not disgusting and coothless.

I agree we shouldnt wait for them to come to us but I believe there is a bigger threat not from a nation but from groups of terrorists within these nations. I understand that this is the real problem. If our leaders believed there was viable threat in Iraq then they must also believe there are bigger threats abroad. I like discussions like these because I need to hear the other sides opinion. I agree we do not need to argue between us because it gets us nowhere. I know Saddam had to go but I believe we started this war hastily without a plan a,b,or c. I used to be a republican(if you can believe that!)But I must say Bush is choppy and undecided on certain matters. Im not saying I can do it better, its just how I see it. If you say he is doing a good job then that is your right, your freedom. It is hard to keep a open mind on this subject but appreciate EVERYONES OPINION Thank You

[mohrds]

Originally Posted by Electrophil

Not one military death happened during Clinton's watch. 8 years... not one. Yeah, there were vehicle accidents, etc. Always will be. But not one military person lost their lives under any combat conditions during his 8 years.

Now you are just plain talking out of your arse.

The Battle of Mogadishu, Somalia.
18 American soldiers died, and 73 were wounded (another American soldier was killed in a mortar attack a day later).

USS Cole Attacked by al-Quida
17 sailors were killed and 39 others were injured in the blast.

I am done with this thread. You can claim your "victory through perseverance" but everyone reading this thread and the many others like it know exactly what your "facts" are and what the real facts are.

Good Night and God Bless America.

[demonsvx]

Originally Posted by lhopp77

To answer your question, I spent 5 years in Vietnam and I did agree with our mission even though it was not a direct threat to our country. However, the continued spread of Communism WAS a threat to our country and our way of life and this was a war to stop that spread. (I might add that it was a Democrat president that got us in the war) I very rarily admit to this or even talk about it, but I have been awarded the Silver Star, 2 Bronze Stars w/"V" and 3 Purple Hearts. Yes, I have been there and done that and have given my blood for our freedom and our way of life and don't regret one single moment of it.

Lee

I also salute your service to our country and insuring our freedoms. Vietnam like Iraq is a unpopular war for some of the same reasons. I admit I should not say Im running to Canada to avoid a draft if there comes a day. I will stay and fight for what I believe in Freedom for all people here and abroad.
Besides Canada is too cold for me. I grew up in Hawaii and was immersed in the military lifestyle with my friends. Sorry for my arrogance

[sicksubie]

Originally Posted by demonsvx

I agree we shouldnt wait for them to come to us but I believe there is a bigger threat not from a nation but from groups of terrorists within these nations. I understand that this is the real problem. If our leaders believed there was viable threat in Iraq then they must also believe there are bigger threats abroad. I like discussions like these because I need to hear the other sides opinion. I agree we do not need to argue between us because it gets us nowhere. I know Saddam had to go but I believe we started this war hastily without a plan a,b,or c. I used to be a republican(if you can believe that!)But I must say Bush is choppy and undecided on certain matters. Im not saying I can do it better, its just how I see it. If you say he is doing a good job then that is your right, your freedom. It is hard to keep a open mind on this subject but appreciate EVERYONES OPINION Thank You

I semi agree with you on that. There was definitely a plan 'A' and I think that plans 'b', 'c', etc where very poorly designed and when 'A' started to falter the back-ups just made things worse. I agree that the war was and is necessary, but has been mismanaged. I think that this is in part due to, like Vietnam, we have too many politicians making decisions and not generals. Also, you have to agree that the media is definitely portraying this war in a bad light. You never see any good news coming out of Iraq (and there is some). All you see is negative, negative, negative. So, I think that they are in part to blame for Bush's low approval rating.

[Electrophil]

Originally Posted by sicksubie

DemonSVX, quick question, let me get this straight. The war in Iraq is unjust so you say because they haven't attacked us yet. So, am I to ascertain that you would rather wait until after we are attacked by terrorists who were supplied with nerve gas from Iraq? You cannot argue that they did not have nerve gas and were not afraid to use it. Every single major news agency (MSNBC, ABC, NBC, Fox, BBC, CNN) has reported the finding of nerve gas along with the evidence that they had tested it (on the Kurds).

Electrophil, just so you know I have to buddies that are currently in Iraq. One is in the Army the other is in the Marines. They both know exactly why they are there and can't stand people like you. I printed one of the other anti-Bush threads in which you were so eloquently stating your distaste for Bush and they read it and were utterly disgusted. To disagree is your right, but come on, do it in a the fashion that is not disgusting and coothless.

They had nerve gas back during their war with Iran, because we sold it to them. (Remember all those friendly pictures of Rumsfield hand grabbing with the ruthless dictator?) Nerve gas has a shelf life of 8 months. Do the math.

He became a "ruthless dictator" when he went into Kuwait. He was our cute little boogie woogie buddy before then. There is no nerve gas, or we would have a boatload of dead desert storm troops, and a truckload more dead troops now.

As for your "buddies" in Iraq, I call Bull sheets. I have several, and I mean several friends, and that's not how they feel. They do as they are told, and anything otherwise is considered grounds for non-judicial punishment.

[Manarius]

Don't get me started on Vietnam.

My dad is a Vietnam vet and to this day curses George W. Bush for going into Iraq. He thinks it's the stupidest thing a president has done since Vietnam.

And just speaking on Vietnam, historians agree that it was the biggest American screwup ever. And they do blame Johnson, I blame Johnson's censored data. Johnson shouldn't have gotten into Vietnam, but he was getting information that was so censored and wrong that he thought that everything was going all right over there. After LBJ left office in 72, he was plagued by the horrible feelings he felt for people who died or were injured in Vietnam.

[Electrophil]

Originally Posted by lhopp77

To answer your question, I spent 5 years in Vietnam and I did agree with our mission even though it was not a direct threat to our country. However, the continued spread of Communism WAS a threat to our country and our way of life and this was a war to stop that spread. (I might add that it was a Democrat president that got us in the war) I very rarily admit to this or even talk about it, but I have been awarded the Silver Star, 2 Bronze Stars w/"V" and 3 Purple Hearts. Yes, I have been there and done that and have given my blood for our freedom and our way of life and don't regret one single moment of it.

Lee

5 Years in Vietnam? That's 15 consecutive 4 month tours on battlefield. Did you get lost?

True. Kennedy started the so called "Training" with CIA in Vietnam, then limited troops for (cough) "training", and once Robert McNamara infected Johnson with the war bug, things went straight to the swirling oscillator. Kind of reminds me of today with Cheney.

Kennedy paid the price with a bullet in his head. Johnson was forced out of nomination from his party and solemnly appologized to the American public while declaring he was not seeking re-election. McNamara simply went nuts after seeing that guy burn himself up.

How is Bush going to pay? That's the difference today. There has been absolutely no accountability. Only medals for the ones supposedly to blame.

[Electrophil]

Originally Posted by Manarius

Don't get me started on Vietnam.

My dad is a Vietnam vet and to this day curses George W. Bush for going into Iraq. He thinks it's the stupidest thing a president has done since Vietnam.

And just speaking on Vietnam, historians agree that it was the biggest American screwup ever. And they do blame Johnson, I blame Johnson's censored data. Johnson shouldn't have gotten into Vietnam, but he was getting information that was so censored and wrong that he thought that everything was going all right over there. After LBJ left office in 72, he was plagued by the horrible feelings he felt for people who died or were injured in Vietnam.

I agree. History has shown that was a mistake. I blame McNamara for being a "Never served" chickenhawk, and Johnson for being weak and easily led.

I swear.... The parallels are striking with our world today. History will show this war as huge screwup#2. Terrorism has increased and spread to epidemic proportions in Iraq, and we've killed so many civilians, their relatives are biting at their leashes wanting to strike us.

Those 9 year old boys grow up.... with an attitude.

[Electrophil]

Originally Posted by sicksubie

A quote from my buddies letter: " We are here for a purpose and we are doing it. That purpose is #1 protect our families back home, #2 We have freed an entire nation. Has it gone perfectly according to plan? (Heck) no, but what war does? There have been bumps ( we have lost guys in my own unit) in the road, but we will push on until we are no longer needed. Over all the attitude of the Iraqi people is so-so. It depends what section that you are in. There are some places where we get invited in for dinner and the people are incredibly happy. Then there are the places where you are constantly looking over your shoulder. It varies greatly. Yes, guys have died over here, but name me another war where a country was taken down with under 3,000 killed. It is sad that there will be a lot of guys not coming home, but they answered the ultimate call of duty and did it proudly."

Quote: That purpose is #1 protect our families back home.
We were never in danger of being attacked by Iraq... until now. Iraq is now a breeding ground for future terrorists. We dismantled a secular government and installed a theocracy with a Shiite fundamentalism. The same as Iran. We are in big trouble.

Quote: #2 We have freed an entire nation.
From what? The UN sanctions? WMD's? Our buddy the evil dictator?
(Iraq was THE most westernized country in the middle east prior to the 2003 attack that has now put religion into a previously secular government.)

Quote: but name me another war where a country was taken down with under 3,000 killed.

Desert Storm and the liberation of Kuwait. Pulled off with the expertise of champions under the outstanding leadership of "The Bear".

I salute your friend for the outstanding job he is doing.
I pray he makes it back in one piece.

[Electrophil]

Originally Posted by mohrds

Now you are just plain talking out of your arse.

The Battle of Mogadishu, Somalia.
18 American soldiers died, and 73 were wounded (another American soldier was killed in a mortar attack a day later).

USS Cole Attacked by al-Quida
17 sailors were killed and 39 others were injured in the blast.

I am done with this thread. You can claim your "victory through perseverance" but everyone reading this thread and the many others like it know exactly what your "facts" are and what the real facts are.

Good Night and God Bless America.

You are right about Black Hawk down. I spaced that one, and I stand corrected.

Since you have blamed Clinton with the Cole incident, I'd like to talk to you about almost 3,000 dead on our own soil in New York, and ask you who is responsible.

The facts are obvious.... at least to most of us.

[Landshark]

Originally Posted by Electrophil

Since you have blamed Clinton with the Cole incident, I'd like to talk to you about almost 3,000 dead on our own soil in New York, and ask you who is responsible.

the Clinton administration. should i say it one more time?

[Electrophil]

Sigh... I just can't believe some of you feel this idiot black sheep failed businessman has done no wrong. It has to be an overdose of Fox news. It's the only way.

[Landshark]

Originally Posted by Electrophil

Sigh... I just can't believe some of you feel this idiot black sheep failed businessman has done no wrong. It has to be an overdose of Fox news. It's the only way.

never said he never did any wrong. its the wacky liberals who blame **everything** (9/11, price of gas, the weather, cold coffee) on Bush that make me laugh. i blame the overdose of liberal media and CNN. <dramatic sigh>