What is worse? Why?

[iizbeastie]

Originally Posted by NikFu S.

That said I'd do almost anything for my blood counterparts provided they can prove to me my time is not wasted. If they can't, blood starts to look pretty anemic.

I do this. To everyone though, I don't really care about blood unless it's my kids. For my students and employees they know that when they stop showing me they care or at least some effort on their part, they will no longer receive my assistance.

Originally Posted by NikFu S.

I draw the line between pre-adult and adult, professional and non-professional. I make no distinctions between adults until health becomes a factor.

I cannot ignore that there are no numbers here. Backtracking our unmentioned agreement that there are those who reach this level early and others late if at all.

Originally Posted by NikFu S.

I'm not making the argument of why no teenager should have children. If that was your angle, I missed it.

The original question still remaining: What is so horrible about a teen (we'll call it, young adult not necessarily pre-adult) having a child.

[NikFu S.]

Originally Posted by iizbeastie

The original question still remaining: What is so horrible about a teen (we'll call it, young adult not necessarily pre-adult) having a child.

My original answer, clearly defined: higher than average risk of becoming a dysfunctional family.

Why? Lower probability of maturity.

That's it.


Granted every case should be viewed on a case-by-case basis, as all things should.

[iizbeastie]

Originally Posted by NikFu S.

My original answer, clearly defined: higher than average risk of becoming a dysfunctional family.

Define "functional family". I loathe these terms as they are individual and no two 'function' the same. I don't like terms such as 'normal' either as I believe there is no such thing.

[NikFu S.]

While I do not enjoy the concept of normality it has it's uses in categorizing what can be accepted by a majority of people.

In this case, using the American populace as the majority, last century's tradition as a point of reference, and current statistics of rising divorce rates and various such familial "abnormalities", we can assert that any behaviour that is detrimental to the growth or establishment of the traditional 4.1 nuclear family is both abnormal and undesirable.

"Functional" is defined as successful and successful is defined as maintaining the majority view of what a family should be, husband, wife, 2 kids and a dog.


A dysfunctional family would I guess be a family that fights a lot, splits up, can not agree on things, have a general tension that doesn't ease, just like you can say a car that is misfiring is dysfunctional. It runs, and is still a car, but it's misfiring and that is an undesirable thingymabobber.

I think I'm running out of words. I have yet to enjoy a breakfast of any sort.

[BeneathNorthernSkys]

I think the real lesson in all of this is simple. How do you prevent yourself from having a child before you're ready?

I happen to have an awesome and easy answer. Don't have sex. Simple math, you+no one = 0% chance of a child.

So I should think that we all can think about this with a logical outlook and decide whats more important. A secure future, in which a child would be protected and cared for by those responsible. Or a uncertain life in which the possibility may arise that the child is unfit to be cared for by yourself and have to give it up for adoption.

I don't mean to demean anyone who has had a child and wasn't ready, or who decided to take the risk. Or simply anyone who has had a child and was happy. I am simply stating the risk is known, the statistics are there, all that's left is for you to take that and apply it as you see fit.

Not worried about dealing with a child, go out and do as you please. However for the majority of young adults who are not financially or emotionally ready, just wait. I realize that it can be hard to not want to reward urges or desires. I'll be the first to admit, I've not always ignored them, however, the odds are in your favor if you limit, or just don't go along with those passions.

I say this with the view point of someone who is 20 and is well aware of the consequences of my actions.

[BeneathNorthernSkys]

quote error...

[BeneathNorthernSkys]

Originally Posted by iizbeastie

Ok, but I've already mentioned that simply having a child is often a HUGE motivator to align priorities, get a good job (or just multiple jobs... whatever).

So your assuming in this statement, that having multiple jobs, you'll be there to care for that child. I would like to think that everyone would be able to do so, but the reality is, that working multiple jobs, means not being there a HUGE portion of the time. I guess that kid can raise them self though, so no biggie right?

[SVXyGirl]

Originally Posted by BeneathNorthernSkys

I happen to have an awesome and easy answer. Don't have sex. Simple math, you+no one = 0% chance of a child.

This reminded me of the SNL sketch with Will Ferrell and Cheri O Teri.

"Sex can wait. MASTURBATE!"

[BeneathNorthernSkys]

Well, I'm glad someone got a good laugh out of that

[iizbeastie]

Originally Posted by BeneathNorthernSkys

So your assuming in this statement, that having multiple jobs, you'll be there to care for that child. I would like to think that everyone would be able to do so, but the reality is, that working multiple jobs, means not being there a HUGE portion of the time. I guess that kid can raise them self though, so no biggie right?

Wow, that was taken completely out of context. I was simply saying that it would drive you to do what is necessary to have what you need. Multiple jobs also doesn't have to mean working 80+ hours a week. Have you ever heard of two part time jobs? As far as that goes, most of the people I know who 'waited' did so to establish a career, in which case you generally end up with both parents working, business hours most often, and the child is raised by sitters, daycare and nannies. Or wait, 'raised by them selves' was the term, or wasn't it?

Where I'm mostly going here is that these 'kids' would stand a much better chance if we gave up on the nagging, lecturing and generally downward looking attitude and just gave them some advice that didn't make them start off feeling like a failure. They don't need to feel as though they made a huge mistake, at very least that isn't healthy for a pregnancy or during the lovely postpartom depression stages of parenthood. As a society we need to be more supportive of what needs to happen and less nagging of what has already taken place.

[BeneathNorthernSkys]

Why should society give sympathy for individuals who CHOOSE to become more intimately involved. I in no way am arguing that we should throw rocks at them or any kind of witch hunt. What should be said about this is something that is age old and will probably make me sound like some bible thumper but regardless here it goes....marriage was established for a reason, and with that said I think it stands obvious why. Young adults would find that by not involving themselves in such an intimate level is for their own saftey. You run such a lower risk of these issues. Not only that, but if more people simply waited tell they were married to do so, they wouldn't be worrying about whether their child would have two parents. Not that all households with two parents turn out good, but statistically their more stable.

Welcome to the real world. I think this country has lost a lot of moral integrity and it's evident in the views that are shared across the states. I think we should all do well to reflect on the standards that made this into the country it once was and all strive to bring that back. Call me old fashioned but I have not experienced many of the stresses that I hear from friends and acquaintances, I attribute this to a quality that I am glad I have, personal restraint.

In fact don't call it old fashioned, maybe I just use logic before I let emotions get the best of me.

P.S - just because two parents work, doesn't mean that they aren't there for their children. Not only should that be noted, but Ideally one parent could be home. Setting yourself up financially is always at the fore front of this topic because it is the number ONE reason that issues arise. To argue this point is just flat out ignorance.

[iizbeastie]

Originally Posted by BeneathNorthernSkys

Why should society give sympathy for individuals who CHOOSE to become more intimately involved. I in no way am arguing that we should throw rocks at them or any kind of witch hunt.

I am not rallying for sympathy at all. I am merely trying to understand why we feel it is necessary to project a 'holier than thou', 'damn you f*ked up' attitude onto someone merely based on numbers.

Originally Posted by BeneathNorthernSkys

What should be said about this is something that is age old and will probably make me sound like some bible thumper but regardless here it goes

Yeah, I have issues with that book. And how old was Mary when *God* impregnated her? If I'm not mistaken it was 12, is that it? because if you're a God you can knock up a pre-teen and everyone thinks that's ok? I am more than willing to ignore that point... moving on,

Originally Posted by BeneathNorthernSkys

....marriage was established for a reason, and with that said I think it stands obvious why. Young adults would find that by not involving themselves in such an intimate level is for their own saftey. You run such a lower risk of these issues. Not only that, but if more people simply waited tell they were married to do so, they wouldn't be worrying about whether their child would have two parents.

Have we not seen in these same statistics that when you lecture a rebellious teen, we are more likely to peak their interest towards the no no zone? Can we not put two and two together? Yes, this is statistically a growing, ehem, "problem" (even broadcast in the news in a down looking view) despite that we continue to babble about it. The more we talk about it the more it happens and we cannot seem to put 2 and 2 together.

Originally Posted by BeneathNorthernSkys

Not that all households with two parents turn out good, but statistically their more stable.

Yeah, more financially stable. What about all the rich kids' who hate their parents? Look at the bonding strength instead and you may see that their sense of family is typically strong. In a case where the parents of said preggo-teen were supportive, then even more so. Why, because they didn't start off dealing with family issues. Outside of the family, we lecture these up-coming parents without even asking them what they want or what they plan to do. (not at all talking about aborting because in my opinion that is never an option)

Originally Posted by BeneathNorthernSkys

Welcome to the real world. I think this country has lost a lot of moral integrity and it's evident in the views that are shared across the states. I think we should all do well to reflect on the standards that made this into the country it once was and all strive to bring that back. Call me old fashioned but I have not experienced many of the stresses that I hear from friends and acquaintances, I attribute this to a quality that I am glad I have, personal restraint.

Well now that I've been here for a while, thanks for welcoming me. As far as the real world and facing facts, this country is the original melting pot. It has been a slurry of differing opinions and opposing morals since day one and hasn't changed.
I personally have a generous amount of personal restraint, I use it to refrain from badgering a person who doesn't need it in this case. I don't see the need to down talk someone who needs support. In the case of pregnancy, even a 45 year old could use support. When we offer "sympathy" to the teens, we send it off more like pity, and that is a shame.

Originally Posted by BeneathNorthernSkys

P.S - just because two parents work, doesn't mean that they aren't there for their children. Not only should that be noted, but Ideally one parent could be home. Setting yourself up financially is always at the fore front of this topic because it is the number ONE reason that issues arise. To argue this point is just flat out ignorance.

Well, if they are not both gone at the same time, then as you mention it's a handoff game that typically ends up with a family being operated like a business. Not that that is always a bad thing, but it usually is.

I am far from ignorant on this issue, I'm not attempting to say that finances aren't a challenge for them, what I'm asking for is something more than that. We have all known teenagers far more mature emotionally than others just as we have known 30 year olds with the maturity level of a chimpanzee, so I also don't consider that to be a solid position. I want to know why when "many" of these families don't work out or 'fail' in the public eye (and that's only looking at statistics from this culture being the arrogant a$$e$ we are) we treat them all with the same 'you horny dip$h!t attitude'.

[NikFu S.]

Originally Posted by iizbeastie

Yeah, I have issues with that book. And how old was Mary when *God* impregnated her? If I'm not mistaken it was 12, is that it? because if you're a God you can knock up a pre-teen and everyone thinks that's ok? I am more than willing to ignore that point... moving on,

Wow, I really gotta read this book... if I haven't already.

I am far from ignorant on this issue, I'm not attempting to say that finances aren't a challenge for them, what I'm asking for is something more than that.

Would you accept that a majority of people feel a young adult is throwing away a useful part of their youth by taking on a child before say, college or a decent career? Not only would this college or career expand this potential parents' maturity and pocketbook, but if taken in this order the world is more of an oyster and less of a clam?
Maybe "throwing away" is a bit strong of a term but let's be real, said future parent would be out a looooot of free time and be at a severe disadvantage in the modern workforce waiting for college after a birth.

[iizbeastie]

Originally Posted by NikFu S.

Wow, I really gotta read this book... if I haven't already.

It is a truly amusing and oddly interesting book. They call it the bible and you can find it in almost any store these days......

Originally Posted by NikFu S.

Would you accept that a majority of people feel a young adult is throwing away a useful part of their youth by taking on a child before say, college or a decent career? Not only would this college or career expand this potential parents' maturity and pocketbook, but if taken in this order the world is more of an oyster and less of a clam?

Do I accept people feeling this way, essentially yes. What I fail to accept is the reason the need to feel this way especially when it isn't even their problem. This actually brings in the whole other issue of people who aren't even parents dictating those who are. People babbling on and on about what is abusive and good/bad parenting when they themselves have never had a child to care for to observe the behavior parents are faced with.

Originally Posted by NikFu S.

Maybe "throwing away" is a bit strong of a term but let's be real, said future parent would be out a looooot of free time and be at a severe disadvantage in the modern workforce waiting for college after a birth.

Yes, it takes a lot of your time to be a parent, uh duh? But what are they otherwise wasting time on.... I am not at all calling college a waste of time, but first off, when did college become out of the question? With the number of online classes available and the expanding number of schools with flexible schedules, why do we assume they have to put their own life on hold? Moving up on this same issue, it disgusts me when I hear married couples or even divorced parents go on about how they were "in it for the kids". One of the challenges that is even more prominent than financial stability is the parents relationship with one another and their individual ability to still be an individuals. Sorry, but as a kid who grew up under a "dysfunctional marriage" followed by a "separated family" I would much prefer to have two separated families than a pair of parents who cannot stay out of each others throats.

So again, can I accept how people feel about this? Yes, and it's exactly the problem I am attempting to address.

[NikFu S.]

Originally Posted by iizbeastie

People babbling on and on about what is abusive and good/bad parenting when they themselves have never had a child to care for to observe the behavior parents are faced with.

I think everyone can have advice on parenting because everyone has been parented to some degree. It's kind of like both teachers and students having an opinion of teaching styles. Teachers use one style, students are taught by one or many styles, so they can have a valid opinion about it.

Yes, it takes a lot of your time to be a parent, uh duh? But what are they otherwise wasting time on.... I am not at all calling college a waste of time, but first off, when did college become out of the question? With the number of online classes available and the expanding number of schools with flexible schedules, why do we assume they have to put their own life on hold?

Their life isn't being put on hold. Their attention is being focused. It's a simple fact if you do one you will have less time for the other. If you can manage both (and a job), great. Why should anyone have to? College will take anywhere from 15 months to 4 years, longer if you're ambitious.
Children will last up to 18 years. Longer if ..things happen.

It seems logical to me to spend the best years of my youth in preparation for that which I consider the greatest challenge in life.

This to me seems like a natural progression, doing things from easiest to most difficult/time consuming.