65MPG Ford

[jeffast]

Originally Posted by benebob

Lets see. I did the math while about the same time you were applying for a learners permit. I know I have it around here somewhere. The figures don't lie. The information is there and readily available. Whether you want to learn the errors of your ignorant thought process on current bio diesel is the point. Since you're obviously too lazy to do some research I'll even get you started with some basic info. You just need to fill in the blanks

There are 640 acres in a square mile, the US consumes a little more than 9 million barrels of oil in a day, there are 365.25 days in a year. Average yield for an acre of easily grown US products in terms of usable oil is going to be about 30 gallons per acre annually once you factor into the equation drought, floods, 25% fallow lands. Roughly 700,000 square miles are used for crops in the US. All you need to do is do the math and you'll have the number of acres needed to product enough diesel to meet current demand. The information is readily available, I just didn't feel the need to feed you with a silver spoon. I don't feed my 3 year old either You're a big boy aren't you?

but did you take into account, that diesels are around %40 more efficient, so you would only need like %60-70 of that to run the country when every one switches over to diesel, not to mention there are no figure in existence as to how many restaurants are letting their wvo be recycled vrs it being recycled for use in diesel vehicles. you need to add both those numbers into the calculation as well.

have some dignity, leave personal attacks out of a debate.

[JaySVX]

Originally Posted by BeneathNorthernSkys

SHHhhhH!!!! You'll give away the secret! I'll just state, that most technology we dream about, has existed for a long period of time. The problem is, if we made things that efficient, you'll put yourself out of business. There are a lot of systems that are built flawed to keep returning customers, that's just a basic tool of economics.

Oh i know, the tech is there. Edison's origional lightbulb is still burning, yet I'm lucky to get 8 months out of the ones in my house. It's called planned obsolescence. Everyone does it.

As far as status symbols, I agree. I drive a grocery getter for fuel economy, doesn't mean if I meet some important folks I'm not taking the expedition, just because i can. The CEO of my company, his office chair is some green leather thing that looks like it's from a yard sale in the 80's. He comes to work in a mid 90's Honda Accord. He has a normal house. He also makes 4.08mil/year. He is a highly intelegent man, who is one of my roll models. I still have a lot to learn from him.

[Landshark]

Originally Posted by JaySVX

He is a highly intelegent man, who is one of my roll models.

ask him how to spell intelligent.

my roll model:

[benebob]

Originally Posted by jeffast

but did you take into account, that diesels are around %40 more efficient,

Bullcrap! 30% at best with current tech. Closer to 20-25% in reality with current tech.

Originally Posted by jeffast

so you would only need like %60-70 of that to run the country when every one switches over to diesel, not to mention there are no figure in existence as to how many restaurants are letting their wvo be recycled vrs it being recycled for use in diesel vehicles. you need to add both those numbers into the calculation as well.

have some dignity, leave personal attacks out of a debate.

And how does that play into the equation. I gave you the total oil. I thought it was common knowledge with someone of your caliber who's obviously researched it the subject rather than jump on a pipe dreap would know that 1/3 of the oil is refined and used as diesel so you need to take a 1/3 of the total daily oil as diesel. I said that we wouldn't have enough CURRENT production capability from food crops in the US to usuing CURRENT tech grow enough biodiesel for vehicles CURRENTLY using diesel... NOTHING about the future.

If you want to talk that then you need to calculate population growth, more vehicles on the road and the continued expansion of miles driven by Americans that seems virtually unending (minus the current blip).

Originally Posted by jeffast

not to mention there are no figure in existence as to how many restaurants are letting their wvo be recycled vrs it being recycled for use in diesel vehicles. you need to add both those numbers into the calculation as well.

I did take it into account. There isn't any b/c under your plan we don't have any veggie oil to sell to these restaurants since it is all going to power the current vehicles long before it makes it to a restaurant! Do you even know how little oil there is out there that isn't recycled already into another product or goes into a grease car?

Originally Posted by jeffast

have some dignity, leave personal attacks out of a debate.

Sorry if you're again mistaken, I'm not attacking you personally, as I couldn't give a crap about you if you're too lazy to actually do the research to actually have a debate, but rather your lack of education on the subject. Sure I think we can be doing more with this but in the long run, bio diesel is as much a looser as gas and as hybrids. That all could change with a breakthrough in technology BUT only an idiot puts all of his eggs in one basket. The breakthrough has been steadly been worked on since the days of Hitler with very little progress. Don't hold your breath. The diesel you buy today will be long dead by the time it might be a reality.

If the answer was so simply then why isn't it being undertaken?

[jeffast]

ok, i'm not going to reward being childish, you want to debait grow up. quit insulting me, and state your case you seem to be un able to site a single source and yet, you have done all this "research". show some sources that prove your not talking **** asshole or get the **** out.

[subi-crosser]

Originally Posted by BeneathNorthernSkys

SHHhhhH!!!! You'll give away the secret! I'll just state, that most technology we dream about, has existed for a long period of time. The problem is, if we made things that efficient, you'll put yourself out of business. There are a lot of systems that are built flawed to keep returning customers, that's just a basic tool of economics.

In 1972 I got 25 mpg with a V-8 Buick station wagon. In 1974, I got 27 mpg with a Rambler Classic with a PACKARD V-8. In 1975, I got over 27 mpg with a Dodge van with a 318 V-8. After YEARS of improooovments, I get 25 mpg with a 2.5 4 cyl!! I get 25 on the HIGHWAY, around town it drops to 18...

NOW THAT is some really GREAT application of what we USED to know about internal combustion!!

Lets just face it! Guv-ment LIKES the tax dollars they collect on the oil we WASTE because the guv-ment has put all these restrictions on the auto makers that KILL mileage!

Another 'problem' that was 'solved' was the cars are SLOWER now!

I could run that Buick out to 75 mph in LOW and it barked the tires when it hit drive. Then the speedo would drop under the dash and she would crank out another 2,000 rpms!

The Rambler had a 3 speed automatic. It could run 'out of numbers' in SECOND GEAR!

The 65 Dodge van was clocked, by a local Judges' nephew at 155 MPH!

It could run the speedo out in second too.

It's as much about 'final drive ratios' as it is about fuel consumption. The lower your gears are the LESS an engine has to 'perform' to give the ILLUSION' that it runs well.

When you have 'tall' gears, 'tall' tires and marginal performance, you will get BETTER mileage! You will also get a 'top end' that will blow your mind!

If you have a really GREAT performing engine with the things that I mentioned, you COULD get 2 X the 'stated' mileage of the vehicle.

I have been 'playing' with cars since the mid-60's.

I KNOW what I have to do to get WELL over 30 mpg on a V-8! The only problem is that it will have a 200 MPH top end, and I don't know if I could resist!!


I hope I took this PEEING contest closer to it's ORIGINAL intent!!

[benebob]

Originally Posted by jeffast

ok, i'm not going to reward being childish, you want to debait grow up. quit insulting me, and state your case you seem to be un able to site a single source and yet, you have done all this "research". show some sources that prove your not talking **** asshole or get the **** out.

Again you're wrong. I'm not insulting you but either your lack of ability or willingness to do the research yourself. I will not hand you statistical information that is commonly accepted by ANY agricultural textbook. If you're too lazy to do it then why should I hand it to ya. Again why should I spoon feed you as I don't spoon feed a 3 year old. I gave you my source but in case you missed it here it is again:


ANY AGRICULTURAL TEXT BOOK! WILL HAVE THE US AGRICULTURAL STATISTICS IN IT.

If you can't see the error in your thought process that isn't my fault. I'm simply stating commonly accepted principles which is why we aren't currently making all of our diesel out of bio oils. It ain't that hard to realize the truth if you open your eyes. Until you're willing to open up your eyes then keep this in mind if you insist I'm attacking you personally! The statistics don't lie!

Originally Posted by jeffast

your talking out your ass JEFF

[jeffast]

so go find any agricultural text book, find the information, then give the book title publisher and pages that the info was found on, and voila, you have cited a source. you must have had a hard time in English class.

[jeffast]

Originally Posted by benebob

Again you're wrong. I'm not insulting you but either your lack of ability or willingness to do the research yourself. I will not hand you statistical information that is commonly accepted by ANY agricultural textbook.

i don't have to prove your half, i have to prove mine why should i look up sources for your argument. you do your own research.

Originally Posted by benebob

The statistics don't lie!

I haven't seen any statistics. I have seen how fast benebob can make up figures.

Originally Posted by benebob

If you're too lazy to do it then why should I hand it to ya. Again why should I spoon feed you as I don't spoon feed a 3 year old.

You are taking this a little personal. i think you should calm down a little bit.

Originally Posted by benebob

Again why should I spoon feed you as I don't spoon feed a 3 year old.

I said it a little more politely, But yeah show me a source.

[benebob]

Originally Posted by jeffast

so go find any agricultural text book, find the information, then give the book title publisher and pages that the info was found on, and voila, you have cited a source. you must have had a hard time in English class.

Like I said Jeff, I know it is the truth, just as any other person that researches the subject knows. You are not worth the time to waste as you're too ignorant when presented with legitimate numbers to not see reality. If you don't like the numbers then find some that work better. You won't be able too realistally. If you want to remain ignorant then don't look the stats up and spend the rest of your life living in a narrow minded hole in the wall that doesn't mesh with reality.

I'm not in school, you are, act like it. Go right ahead and prove me wrong using the USDA statistics. The statistics I posted are sound. Think of it as a book report! Anyway you do the fuzzy math your idea is a loser in today's world. If you can't come to the conclusion that you're wrong then YOU are the one who should be sitting at a library doing research, obviously you need too. If you're so smart and your concept is so great then prove it. The rest of the world which has rejected your idea is waiting!

Here's one thing to keep in mind while your doing it. The one problem with the stats is that the USDA doesn't calculate total crop production for human consumption. They combine it with animal feed so that 450 million square miles is actually much less since most of the crop production goes to feeding cows, dogs, sheep and cats...

It simply makes your idea that we can grow biodiesel at a meaningful scale today even less likely.

Your just as wrong on this subject as you were on your ablity to rallyx a SVX without killing it. Go ahead, prove the stats wrong. If you can't then don't waste my time or server space with your idiot rants.

[benebob]

Originally Posted by jeffast

I haven't seen any statistics. I have seen how fast benebob can make up figures.

Duh, You're right, I've just been spending the past few days making up websites that echo reality. Where is your evidence while were at it. I've yet to see you do more than toot your brilliant plan that the rest of the world has rejected as impractical. You can't get there from here with today's techology and the diesel we consume. Wake up and move on!

http://www.journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_yield.html

Duh, you're right

http://www.epa.gov/oecaagct/ag101/cropmajor.html

Duh, you're right

http://www.epa.gov/oecaagct/ag101/cropmajor.html

Do you need someone to help you pee while your at it?

No these aren't source I used but they do echo reality, not your pipe dream. Gotta go to court now, good luck with your drug test!

[jeffast]

Originally Posted by benebob

Your just as wrong on this subject as you were on your ablity to rallyx a SVX without killing it. Go ahead, prove the stats wrong. If you can't then don't waste my time or server space with your idiot rants.

a: learn to spell, ability.
b: i'm not going to continue here because you cant keep seem to keep from insulting the person who you are debating with.
c: good work you cited your sources, just doing that in the first place could have saved two pages, good work.

[benebob]

Originally Posted by jeffast

b: i'm not going to continue here because you cant keep seem to keep from insulting the person who you are debating with.
c: good work you cited your sources, just doing that in the first place could have saved two pages, good work.

Debating huh, what have you offered to say that biodiesel works other than you think its a good idea. I see that your fragile eggshell of a a$$ can dish it out but you cry like my 3 year old does when someone calls your shortsighted thought out.

I never said those were my sources, in fact I said they weren't. I just offered you the treehuggers version of the stats which if you add them together results in not enough biodiesel using all of our food crop land to satify the current need. What evidence have you provided to say your crackpot driveby ideas work in today's world. NONE! If you can't bring anything to the table, you shouldn't expect to eat the dogs scraps!

[subi-crosser]

Originally Posted by benebob

Debating huh, what have you offered to say that biodiesel works other than you think its a good idea. I see that your fragile eggshell of a a$$ can dish it out but you cry like my 3 year old does when someone calls your shortsighted thought out.

I never said those were my sources, in fact I said they weren't. I just offered you the treehuggers version of the stats which if you add them together results in not enough biodiesel using all of our food crop land to satify the current need. What evidence have you provided to say your crackpot driveby ideas work in today's world. NONE! If you can't bring anything to the table, you shouldn't expect to eat the dogs scraps!

Most engeneers couldn't pour pee out of a boot if the instructions were written on the heel!!!

What we need here is some good ol' GRASS ROOTS COMPITITION!!!

I 'propose' a contest.... Anyone that wants to play, can come in!!

I 'propose' a contest where we build a 'mileage' vehicle and see who can go the furthest on (1) gallon of fuel. I don't care what kind of fuel. diesel, gas, french fryer oil. The vehicle has to be 'street legal'. I will be using a 'historic' vehicle, if the challenge is accepted. I will also be using (1) gallon of 93 octane pump gas.

I will not divulge my 'target' mileage yet, but I know that I can go large!

I will base my vehicle on a Chrysler V-8.....


Do we settle this like men??? (or talk smack??)

[benebob]

Originally Posted by subi-crosser

Most engeneers couldn't pour pee out of a boot if the instructions were written on the heel!!!

What we need here is some good ol' GRASS ROOTS COMPITITION!!!

I 'propose' a contest.... Anyone that wants to play, can come in!!

I 'propose' a contest where we build a 'mileage' vehicle and see who can go the furtest on (1) gallon of fuel. I don't care what kind of fuel. diesel, gas, french fryer oil. The vehicle has to be 'street legal'. I will be using a 'historic' vehicle, if the challenge is accepted. I will also be using (1) gallon of 93 octane pump gas.

I will not divulge my 'target' mileage yet, but I know that I can go large!

I will base my vehicle on a Chrysler V-8.....


Do we settle this like men??? (or talk smack??)

Get to work Jerry, once you've gotten up to 70-80mpg at 65mph we'll talk. That's what I'm currently getting on my daily rider. I'm sure with a little tuning, a 100lbs jockey, some sort of aerodynamics and a carb delete I can have it closer to 100mpg. No need for that high octane crap either. Just need 82 octane or better.