Working on cam and crank seals - need serious help pronto!

So, today I started working on the whole timing belt/seal thing. I have got some definite questions and concerns now that I am in there.

I removed the oil from my pan, and drained the radiator. I then removed the radiator to make for more space. Removing the drive belts, alternator, power steering pump bracket, and A/C bracket was no big deal. I actually got all the brackets off without removing the power steering pump or the A/C compressor.

However, removing the front crank pulley was incredibly difficult. This is one of my main concerns. I managed to get the pulley off, but not ideally. I couldn't get the crankshaft to hold still while turning the bolt that holds it. I tried bracing it with one of the drive belts, but the belt just slipped and the shaft turned. I talked to someone at a local autoparts store, and he said that on his Subaru there are is a small hole in the pulley. He jammed a screwdriver in there, and it stopped the shaft from turning while removing the bolt. I tried that, and it didn't work. An extended breaker bar also did not help.

They way that I had to remove it was just plain scary. I braced a breaker bar against the frame, and engaged the starter. I only turned the key in the car for a flick-of-the-wrist, and that loosened the bolt. Since the shaft is trying to turn clockwise, and I need to bolt to go counter-clockwise, bracing the bar made it loosen the bolt.

So, finally I got the timing belt cover off (about 3 of those little screws broke though). I removed both the idler pulleys, the timing belt, and the belt tensioner. The crankshaft is all lined up, as well as the camshafts.

Now, here is my second concern. How the hell do I get the bolts on the camshafts to loosen? The Chilton's that I have said to use "camshaft sprocket wrench 499207100 or equivalent." I have no idea how to get these loose!!!

I pulled the secondary crank pulley off, and can see the seal. Third concern: What is the best way to get the seal out (or maybe the only way)? I suppose the same goes for the cam seals, whenever I get to them.

Last concern: How am I going to tighten back up the bolts that hold the camshaft pulleys and the front crank pulley???

I really need some help this time around guys! Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaase???

Thanks.

You need a pulley tool. It's a handle with a flat curved piece on the end... the flat piece has two studs sticking out of it to "grab" they pulley and hold it while you torque.

You MUST torque the pulleys down to the proper spec when you put it back together, and I cannot stress enough the importance of having the right tools. You need to be able to hold the pulleys still while you tighten the bolts, you don't want to have a problem later.

You should be able to buy or rent the tools from your local Subaru dealer, or you can order them (like the dealers do) from Kent-Moore, aka SPX.

[lee]

Use of the proper tools is always recommended.

that said, I used a large flat-blade screwdriver and stuck it in the teeth of the flexplate. Then i used a breaker bar/socket on the crank. left it there until I have the covers off, then did the cam bolts. more-or-less reverse to install.

I have seen a special tool made for Subaru that engages several of the flexplate teeth and bolts to the hole next to the opening. this undoubtedly lessens the chance of breaking off a tooth (since my way is only in contact with a single one vice several)

[Noir]

hmm..wonder how much the tool costs. i'll buy one and rent it to members

[NomadTW]

most people use the screwdriver thru the pulley method
but a lot use the breaker against frame crank the engine method... it's actually frighteningly common i've had people recomend it to me as the right way... (never did end up getting a ligthened pulley for the obs tho)

Well, today I managed to break those damned cam pulleys loose. After spending about 3 hours driving around in my parents Bronco and speaking with random people about the job, I found some good info. My local mechanic shop has one employee whom deals with only foreign vehicles. He said that on every Subaru he's ever worked on (sans the SVX, since he hasn't changed the timing belt for one), there is a small access hole near the rear of the engine block where you can see the flywheel. Sure enough, just below the thottle bodies is a small black cap, under which I can see the ring gear for the flywheel. I jammed a screwdriver in there, pseudo-reattached the timing belt, used a 5-foot pole attached to a breaker bar, and got the bolts loose for the cam pulleys. BTW - the torque spec on those is 29 ft/lbs. When I put a torque wrench on one and cranked, it got up to about 80 pounds without any sort movement by the bolt.

I suppose I can use the above method to reattach the bolts for the cam and crankshaft pulleys.

I also purchased a seal-puller today. Getting that thing into the seals initially is impossible. Instead, I used a small pick to "modify" the seals to make enough space for the seal-puller to fit. I then lightly tapped in the new seals, taking about 15 minutes for each to insure that they wouldn't go in all cock-eyed.

My new concern is whether or not the screwdriver-in-the-back-of-the-engine bit will actually work.

Another new concern is the fact that I forgot to order a new seal for thermostat assembly, but it appears as though the local auto store has them in stock.

Thanks for the help ladies and gents. If anything else comes up, I know where to go.

[Mr. Pockets]

I replaced my crank seal at the same time that I replaced my timing belt. Rather than try to dig it out, I just removed the oil pump. That made getting the old seal out and the new one in very easy.

Sounds like you're doing great. Just take your time and don't rush anything.

BTW I've heard plenty of people mention bracing thebreaker bar against the frame and turning over the engine to loosen the crank pulley bolt. As long as you know which direction the engine is going to turn, it's a fine way to do it - and probably better than how I did it. I tightened the accesory belt up real tight and stuck a screwdriver through one of the holes in the PS pulley.

Originally posted by Mr. Pockets
I replaced my crank seal at the same time that I replaced my timing belt. Rather than try to dig it out, I just removed the oil pump. That made getting the old seal out and the new one in very easy.

Not quite sure how that would work. I already got the seals in, so it's too late for me. This is my first *big* project with the SVX, so wouldja mind explaining that to me for future reference?

Sounds like you're doing great. Just take your time and don't rush anything.

Thanks. I'm definitely trying to take my time, stop at first signs of exhaustion, and take a few breaks now and again. This should be a one-day project, but I've had so many unexpected occurrences that it's turned into a 3-day affair.

BTW I've heard plenty of people mention bracing thebreaker bar against the frame and turning over the engine to loosen the crank pulley bolt. As long as you know which direction the engine is going to turn, it's a fine way to do it - and probably better than how I did it. I tightened the accesory belt up real tight and stuck a screwdriver through one of the holes in the PS pulley.


That is precisely how I did it. It was sort of scary to crank the engine over, but I knew it'd be fine since all the timing miscellaneous was still connected (read: the important stuff). Have you any tips on how to put the crank pulley back on? Any help at all would be greatly appreciated

Thanks for the reply. Read within the quotes.

Originally posted by deruvian
My new concern is whether or not the screwdriver-in-the-back-of-the-engine bit will actually work.

It's the ghetto way to do it, but it will work. The concern is getting everything back together, it's hard to torque the cam pulley bolts down while holding the bar on the back of the motor. Did you call your local dealer and see if you could rent the tool?

It's a pretty standard pulley design, Toyota and Nissan use similar ones. It seems like you should be able to buy one that will work at any major auto parts shop.

[immortal_suby]

I am going to be doing this job for the first time very soon - my parts came in this week - so any other info/pics/tips would be appreciated

[Mr. Pockets]

Originally posted by deruvian


Thanks for the reply. Read within the quotes.

To tell you the truth, man, I don't remember how I put the crank pulley back on. I'm pretty sure it's there, though I may very well have reassembled everything and used the screwdriver-and-power-steering-pulley trick again...

As for the crank seal, I just removed all the bolts holding the pump on and pulled the whole thing. There was no gasket, but the Chilton's manual said to use RTV to seal it back up, so I did. I used a piece of PVC and a mallet to set the new seal in. Anyway, that's really it. There's not much else to explain.

Good luck, and here's to having the car start on the first try!

Originally posted by Porter


It's the ghetto way to do it, but it will work. The concern is getting everything back together, it's hard to torque the cam pulley bolts down while holding the bar on the back of the motor. Did you call your local dealer and see if you could rent the tool?

It's a pretty standard pulley design, Toyota and Nissan use similar ones. It seems like you should be able to buy one that will work at any major auto parts shop.

I just spoke with the nearest Subaru dealer today, and asked them about the camshaft sprocket wrench (or any other tools that would help me out in the process). Their response was, "It is against Subaru's policy to sell our tools to the public. Subaru just doesn't allow it."

I told the guy that it sounds like a scheme to get do-it-yourselfers to have their car serviced by Subaru instead. He agreed. So, apparently I'm out of luck for that.

And as for buying the tools from an autoshop, I went to three different shops yesterday: Napa, Autozone, and Kragen. None of them had the tool that I needed. All of them told me that it was a specialty item. None of them had it as part of their loaner program either.

I tried to rent some type of air ratchet and compressor from the local rental yard, and apparently they don't rent air tools. I'm just about out of luck on all this stuff.

Hopefully today will be the last day of this multi-day project. I mean, geeeez!

immortal_suby, I've just about been through all the dumbest, most complicated stuff trying to get the simplest thing to work. So far, so good (sorta). If I can help you to save time on the project, PM me. Perhaps we can get a phone convo going if needed.

The guy at your dealer is full of crap.


You can order the tool through the dealer, it's actually ILLEGAL for them not to sell you one.

I'd just call Kent-Moore and get one if I were you... I dunno how much they are, can't be too terribly expensive. Then you could sell it to the next SVXer who needs one, and so on down the chain.

http://www.spxkentmoore.com/

The dealers buy from them. ^

[SVX-FF]

I did have to use the cam wrench to lossen the cam pully bolt the first time. They get stuck on there pretty tight. I was lucky enough that the Subaru dealer loaned me the tool for a day. There is no other easy way to lossen them the first time.
I also noticed theat my cam seal was not leaking but the top black plug was leaking. They are very easy to replace. They only cost about $2.50 too. I just pried them out and tapped new ones in with a soft mallet.

The Crank shaft bolt is not that hard. there is a small hole under the throttle body that I use wit a long thick flat blade screw driver. I have pics in my locker under Samithia's surgery. I have done the t-belt, waterpump, front seal. They were all not to hard. Remember if you pull the oil pump to get a new o-ring for it.

Steve

Well, I got everything done yesterday evening. New: cam seals, crank seal, water pump, water pump assembly gasket, thermostat, thermostat assembly gasket, timing belt, timing belt cover seals, passenger side internal timing belt cover, and drive belts. I also changed my oil, and refilled the radiator with new fluid.

To get the camshaft pulleys back on, I jammed a screwdriver in the hole underneath the throttle body (to stop the flywheel from spinning), pseudo-replaced the old timing belt, and cranked those bolts back onto the pulleys. This, of course, set off the timing of the cam and crank a wee bit. I wrapped the old timing belt around the cam pulleys, and used the fender/underside of the car for some leverage to pull the pulleys back into place. It's a little more difficult to do this with the crank pulley, so I got under the car and tapped the flywheel with a screwdriver and rubber mallet.

Getting the tensioner piston back into its chamber would be impossible if it were still on the block. I removed it, put it into a moderate-sized vice, and closed the vice as much as possible. Luckily, the tensioner has a small hole through the piston and chamber, so I put a very small allen wrench through the holes to keep the tensioner piston back. I bolted it back up to the block, which made putting the new timing belt on a breeze.

I jammed the screwdriver back into the hole below the throttle body to get the crank pulley back into place. I didn't need to use a breaker bar or anything like that. My 20" torque wrench worked just fine.

Put the radiator and what-not back together (after pressure washing it), and the car started the first try

Easier said than done, though