3.0 H6 Leggy Outback..........

[Phil Hill]

Had a look around my buddies 3.0 H6 Leggy Outback on Saturday (for interest he traded his Imprezza Turbo RB5 edition for it, now that was a superb motor !!) as he said the CEL had come on, and the dealer diag. had said an O2 sensor both electrical and mechanical failure.........

How can the ECU know if it's "mechanically" failed ?? Wierd !! Only thing I can think is it's doing a resistance check on the heater and sensor circuits as well as not seeing the correct signal range for the sensor output.

Anyway, after checking that out and showing him that there are in fact 3 O2 sensors and 3 cats on the car (which impressed him greatly !!), we looked about engine bay for a bit, found out the water dripping under the car was from the condensor drain from the passenger compartment as expected.........

but my slightly rambling tail comes to it's point : How are you supposed to change the spark plugs ??

On the SVX there is just enough room to get everything into place to get at the plugs, and the handy hole through the chassis rail to get at plug no. 6, but on the Outback there is no way. So I asked my buddy and he said the dealer told him they have to pull the motor !! To change the plugs ?? You've got to be kidding ?? Is this correct ??

I can't see it being any easier from underneath, the gap between the chassis rail and the head seems too close for anything much, bearing in mind how deep into the heads you have to get with an extension on your plug spanner..........

Just an observation really I guess......... it seems that the "maintainability" of the newer car was sacrificed a little in comparison with the SVX. At least the plugs only need changing at 60K intervals !!

Phil.

[b3lha]

Hey Phil, how's it going?

I see your old SVX is on Autotrader. I was talking to Tony Shale about it yesterday, trying to tempt him away from his Skyline and back into the SVX world.

The other Phil.

[Hondasucks]

They are full of shizz, you do not have to pull the motor to do the plugs. Flat rate time is the same as an SVX, half hour a plug, so three hours total. The guy I work with says that you can unbolt the motor mounts and jack the engine up a few inches and that helps if you are doing it at home, but at work we stick it on the lift and do the plugs from the bottom.

I've actually never done the plugs on an H6 though, I did do them on a turbo forester once, took me 1.5 hours since I had to do them all by hand cuz I couldn't quite get my air ratchet in there, and the service writer came out and got mad at me cuz she thought all Subarus were 1.4 for the plugs, and the master tech was like "No, turbos are 2.4, and he's done with an hour to spare so I don't know why you are complaining!"

[mysvxrocks]

Originally Posted by Hondasucks

They are full of shizz, you do not have to pull the motor to do the plugs. Flat rate time is the same as an SVX, half hour a plug, so three hours total. The guy I work with says that you can unbolt the motor mounts and jack the engine up a few inches and that helps if you are doing it at home, but at work we stick it on the lift and do the plugs from the bottom.

I've actually never done the plugs on an H6 though, I did do them on a turbo forester once, took me 1.5 hours since I had to do them all by hand cuz I couldn't quite get my air ratchet in there, and the service writer came out and got mad at me cuz she thought all Subarus were 1.4 for the plugs, and the master tech was like "No, turbos are 2.4, and he's done with an hour to spare so I don't know why you are complaining!"

Yeah you should not have to pull the motor... You shouldnt even need to jack it up. We changed out the plugs on my SVX when we resealed the valve covers, and they gave us no problem. It just takes a little time, and patience to get in there. (We didnt even use the access hole) Ive had some bad luck with the dealers around here, so I havent even bothered to go back to them for anything period. When my window got broken out, they told me that I would have to leave the car at the dealer, for a few DAYS, because it was such a very hard, and extremely involved job, that would take at least 8 hours to do. Needless to say, I did the job myself in less than half an hour. Just my opinion... But no, there should be no reason at all to have to pull the motor for that. They are just trying to get as much money out of him as possible.

[Phil Hill]

Hi Phil

Yes, I saw our old SVX on Trader and ironically enough it's located within 4 miles of my mums house !! Looks like someone has done the wing and wheels so she's good to go !!

I did think about if it would be easier to change the plugs from underneath, and I guess that's the best way to get at them. Maybe the chassis rail is a bit higher up on the Outback so you can get the plug box spanner and extension in without fouling the rail. It's of no consequence as they were changed at the last service along with the cam belt since the car has 64K on it.

Seems that as well as charging extremely high prices for parts the main "stealers" here in the UK want to rip you on labour as well !!

Any ideas on the O2 sensor thing ?? I would bet the main stealer wants to replace all three sensors to "clear the codes" where I bet only one is dead !! Perhaps I should wack my fluke across the leads and see if one is obviously dead ??

Phil.

[svxxx26]

ditto on not "pulling the engine" to change plugs on the Legacy H-6. I watched a mechanic do it on my old one, it wasn't the easiest thing in the world but not impossible either.

[edmsvx]

Did my Outback H6 a couple of months ago. I did them from the bottom. It took me less than a couple of hours to do them.

Short extensions, ratchet both 3/8 and 1/4 and adapters from 3/8 to 1/4 inch, etc. After I broke the plugs loose I swapped different extension and changed set up often. I did not fully sit the ratchet into the extension. It was very ackward but probably did not spend more than 10 minutes per plug.

The rest of the time was spent working the cramps out of my hand. Small hands help.

[Hondasucks]

a 1/4" air ratchet, and one of those 1/4 to 3/8" adapters that don't increase the length of the assembly make it real easy. (I don't know the exact name for them, but basically the 1/4" hole is recessed into the 3/8" part, so it doesn't increase the length.)

[Phil Hill]

Update : Spoke to my buddy again yesterday about something unrelated (his Peugeot 205 rally car actually).

The main stealer has identified the dead o2 sensor as bank 1 primary sensor, so knowing our dealer prices he's tried to find the part himself. He said no-one listed a "compatable" part for the 3.0 flat 6 so he ended up back at the dealer. I haven't tried to find the part through my contacts yet and as the car's annual inspection including emmission check is due he's had to order the part and arrange fitting.

The dealer quoted him £360 plus tax for one o2 sensor, plus fitting............

Welcome to the world of crazy prices for Subaru parts in the UK. When we had an SVX the same dealer wanted £115 plus tax for the cam belt, £95 plus tax for the water pump, £105 plus tax for a set of front brake pads, and a whopping £160 plus tax each for front brake rotors/discs.......... Luckily most of the service parts have an aftermarket equivalent but vehicle specific parts are horrendously expensive here.

The concession for Subaru in the UK is held by a company called International Motors, and they have tried to establish the brand as a premium brand on the back of the successes of the Legacy and Imprezza models, especially the competition successes. Pretty much every where else in the world Subaru is considered a main stream brand and priced accordingly to my understanding, but not here.

Oh well, rant over and back to work !!

Phil.