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  #1  
Old 07-20-2004, 04:08 PM
Hangtownsvx Hangtownsvx is offline
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Unauthorized R134A conversion

A remanufactured compressor was put on my 92 last week and unbeknownst to me converted to R134A at the same time. If asked, I would have said to keep R12. I am sure the conversion was proper, but it doesn't seem quite as cold. I see that the condensors had different part numbers between R12 and R134A. Does anyone know what the difference was? physical size/performance or just fittings?
The original compressor just blew up suddendly. I understand there is a lock washer for the swash plate that gets old and desintigrates. I am prepared to return to R12 for Sacramento heat.
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  #2  
Old 07-20-2004, 04:57 PM
red95svx
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I have 134A systems in my 95 and 92 and they both run VERY cold. I'm not sure going back to R12 is such a good idea for you. 134A is much easier to come by (R12 is illegal to purchase...although if a garage still has some they are allowed to use it) and it is much cheaper also. Perhaps your car needs additional AC work (condensor)? When you did the compressor did you install a new receiver/drier (liquid tank)?




Dave
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  #3  
Old 07-20-2004, 05:21 PM
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ensteele ensteele is offline
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I have converted several of mine and they are just as cold.
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  #4  
Old 07-20-2004, 07:54 PM
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I know that our 94' came from the factory with R-134a in it. I'm not sure when Subaru started doing that but I know that it was standard in 94'. I have converted other cars over and they seem to cool fine.
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  #5  
Old 07-20-2004, 08:43 PM
lee lee is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by red95svx
I have 134A systems in my 95 and 92 and they both run VERY cold. I'm not sure going back to R12 is such a good idea for you. ...snip...
Dave, I'm likely wrong here, but isn't there also an issue with the lubricants in trying to go back?

BTW Hangtown, I run 134 in a 92 after a compressor replacement - all else still 92 OEM stock numbers - in Florida - and have no problems. It is slightly less efficient than R12 (so the later MY condensor is probably beefier) but not unbearable even under high heat & humidity conditions.
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  #6  
Old 07-20-2004, 09:50 PM
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If I recall correctly, R12 vs R134a have slightly different cooling properties. It really is very common for a temp difference to be noticed. The a/c tech can probably do some adjustments, just be nice & ask him.
~Brenda
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Old 07-21-2004, 02:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by UniqueAngle If I recall correctly, R12 vs R134a have slightly different cooling properties. It really is very common for a temp difference to be noticed. The a/c tech can probably do some adjustments, just be nice & ask him.
~Brenda
R12 and R134a have considerably different cooling properties. The new junk is not as efficient as good ol' R12. Nevermind that it's also corrosive, toxic, flammable, and more expensive to manufacture - which R12 is not. Oh yeah, and just like R12, it's still a greenhouse gas, so that hasn't changed either. ...but don't worry about any of that stuff. The only part you'll notice is that your cold air may not get as cold despite lowering your fuel economy just the same as before.

Some R134a air-conditioning systems can achieve the same cooling potential, but require more energy, and frequently, larger components. I don't think the post-94 SVXs have any upgraded hardware. I think it's pretty much the same equipment, but with different refrigerant. There are other alternative refrigerants out there, but few are readily available. I've heard of R134a+, R401a, R402a, R409a, and a handful of other ones. They all cost way more to manufacturer [legally] than R12, but the R12 supply/demand equation has been flipped on it's head so the costs have skyrocketed and DuPont, among others, have milked the newer Freons for what their [not] worth.

I have a 1994 SVX with 134a. I'm thinking about converting it to R12. (Mostly out of spite.) I probably never will, but it'd be nice to have cold air. This sorta-cold stuff stinks.

Quote:
Originally posted by Lee
Dave, I'm likely wrong here, but isn't there also an issue with the lubricants in trying to go back?
You're right. You can't just mix and match that stuff. You get boogers in the system if you do. Very messy. The passages are very small so it's hard to get your fingers in there, and it's not very flickable anyway. You have to wipe it off on your pants when no one's looking. The up-side is that there is a flush that can be run through the system to clean that out. It's a normal procedure. (Wish I had one for my boogers.)
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Last edited by UberRoo; 07-21-2004 at 02:36 AM.
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  #8  
Old 07-21-2004, 06:12 AM
red95svx
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Quote:
Originally posted by UniqueAngle
If I recall correctly, R12 vs R134a have slightly different cooling properties. It really is very common for a temp difference to be noticed. The a/c tech can probably do some adjustments, just be nice & ask him.
~Brenda


Unfortunately there are no adjustments to the components. I'm sure that something else is wrong with his AC system. As I've mentioned both my cars are 134A and I've had them running in 95+ degree weather and the air was so cold you could make your hands numb if you wanted. I really think a new condensor is what he needs....either that or his conversion was not done correctly, OR the compressor is a dud.

Lee, I think you and UberRoo are correct about those lubricants. Bad things happen when you start mixing those different lubricants.

Dave

Last edited by red95svx; 07-21-2004 at 06:19 AM.
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  #9  
Old 07-21-2004, 06:29 AM
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I've been running R134a in my car all summer, and the AC cools wonderfully. The only system components that were replaced were the short hose (the original was leaking) and filter/dryer.


dcb
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  #10  
Old 07-21-2004, 08:17 AM
Hangtownsvx Hangtownsvx is offline
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A/C failed already

On the first drive after the reman compressor and the R134A, the compressor started rapidly cycling when freeway speed was achieved. I shut it off and tried again later at lower speed and could hear a sort of chuff, chuff sound. So I haven't yet had a chance to feel the R134 performance. Lack of function is getting in the way.
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  #11  
Old 07-26-2004, 04:42 PM
Hangtownsvx Hangtownsvx is offline
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back to R12

The AC guy couldn't figure out exactly why, but the system seemed to be overpressurizing with the R134, perhaps because the condenser is on the small side or because of my electrical problems, the fans may not be cycling like normal. So he went back to R12 and all is well. He said the duct temps are colder than with the R134, Duh! No $ charge.
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  #12  
Old 07-26-2004, 05:42 PM
lee lee is offline
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Re: back to R12

Quote:
Originally posted by Hangtownsvx
The AC guy couldn't figure out exactly why, but the system seemed to be overpressurizing with the R134, perhaps because the condenser is on the small side or because of my electrical problems, the fans may not be cycling like normal. So he went back to R12 and all is well. He said the duct temps are colder than with the R134, Duh! No $ charge.
great news - from just getting it to work and from the $$ perspective

The duct temps should be better w/R12, the difference though is usually only a degree or two.

If it was "overpressurizing" that probably means too much 134 was used. It's not an uncommon mistake. 134 converted systems should only use some percentage of the R12 charge (around 80 to 85% by weight). The mistake is to look at the old refrigerant tag, and just pump that much 134 (when really they should charge by temp/pressure readings).
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