binding problem - i know i know....

ebaybrad · #1 07-12-2007, 06:31 AM

This has been done many times. I read through all the prev threads with conflicting info.

I get a groan when turning heavy at low speeds and while parking. at near full lock it binds alot. I put the fwd fuse in and it is like a different car! No binding or groaning? Is it dangerous to drive in fwd>? I would think that the gas mileage would be better and i like the pulling feel? I could put the fuse back in in the bad weather....

Anyway, i would like to fix the source of the bind problem if someone with better reading comprehension skills could chime in..

thanks

Mr. Pockets · #2 07-12-2007, 08:17 AM

First of all, please post in the appropriate forum in the future. I have moved this thread to tech q&a for you. Please don't make me do it again; it makes me grumpy.

Using the FWD fuse will not, as I understand it, harm your car. All you're doing is preventing the transfer clutch from being used at all. Effectively, your car is now FWD. Go figure.

Please try to avoid spinning the front wheels while you are using the FWD fuse.

The binding is likely caused by a bad transfer clutch solenoid. The part isn't terribly expensive, but the labor can be. You might as well replace the transfer clutch while you're at it.

I have no idea whether your gas mileage will improve, but if you're getting a kick out of the 'pulling feel,' I highly doubt you're about to see significant gains.

JaySVX · #3 07-12-2007, 09:57 AM

I have this issue, but mine is not in hte mechanics, but likely in the wiring between the TCU and solenoid c. I would go to solenoid c with a volt meter and test the voltage going to it. When FWD is engaged it should be betweene 8-14volts, applying voltage to the solenoid keeping it in fwd mode. When slipping is detected, the voltage drops to between 0-0.5v and it opens allowing 4wd to engage.

Without the FWD fuse in, test the voltage. If your getting current, then the solenoid may be bad.

Go here:
http://www.subaru-svx.net/photos/fil...ye95/12431.PDF
Page 18 should start giving you ideas on how to diagnose the problem.

cdvs · #4 07-12-2007, 11:19 AM

If putting the FWD fuse in stops the binding and gives you the FWD light, then solenoid C (transfer clutch) is working. However, it may not be working properly. In normal mode, it should be allowing partial transfer to the rear wheels, which will allow the transfer clutch to slip when needed, and only full transfer when the front wheels slip. I suspect you should be prepared to replace the transfer clutches as well as the solenoid and valve body.

Good luck!

Charl

dcarrb · #5 07-13-2007, 06:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ebaybrad

I would think that the gas mileage would be better and i like the pulling feel?

You won't get better gas mileage. The engine's turning the same driveline and lugging the same weight, no matter which wheels are moving the car.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdvs

If putting the FWD fuse in stops the binding and gives you the FWD light, then solenoid C (transfer clutch) is working.

I know there must be a thousand threads on this topic, and I don't want to muddy the waters (as all I know about this matter is what I've gleaned from here), but I thought the opposite to be true; that having the fuse cure a binding condition suggests the solenoid is shot.

dcb

cdvs · #6 07-13-2007, 06:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcarrb

I know there must be a thousand threads on this topic, and I don't want to muddy the waters (as all I know about this matter is what I've gleaned from here), but I thought the opposite to be true; that having the fuse cure a binding condition suggests the solenoid is shot.

dcb

Soleniod C disengages the transfer clutch. The FWD fuse engages soleniod C. Failure mode is full transfer.

ebaybrad · #7 07-13-2007, 08:56 AM

i gotta tell ya that I like the way the car feels in FWD mode. It feels faster, lighter, and smoother. I think that I might leave it this way unless the weather is bad or in the winter. I am going to fix the transfer clutch etc...

I still am conflicted in the information about the solenoid c as I read completely opposite answers to the same question...

thank for the help though to all..

dcarrb · #8 07-13-2007, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ebaybrad

i gotta tell ya that I like the way the car feels in FWD mode. It feels faster, lighter, and smoother. I think that I might leave it this way unless the weather is bad or in the winter. I am going to fix the transfer clutch etc...

I still am conflicted in the information about the solenoid c as I read completely opposite answers to the same question...

Could be you prefer FWD simply because you've never driven one with properly-functioning all-wheel drive. If the AWD binds-up badly in turns, of course it's going to feel better in FWD.

Note that my input on solenoid C wasn't an answer, it was an expression of confusion.

dcb

Merz · #9 07-21-2007, 02:42 PM

I have had binding for a long time now. I remember reading that if the binding stops when you insert the fwd fuse, then you have a bad sol C. I replaced Sol C and the binding is still there. What could the problem be? transfer clutches??

Ive been driving with the fwd fuse in for almost a year now because the binding has gotten so bad. Also, sometimes while driving, the fwd light will turn off and the car will go into awd. If i turn off the key and restart the engine while driving, the fwd will usually come back. This gets very annoying though. Ideas?

Im thinking of just replacing the whole transmission.

JaySVX · #10 07-21-2007, 07:50 PM

Check to make sure your getting good voltage between the tcu and the sol c. My entire tranny was replaced, and it still binds. The tcu was replaced and it still binds. That leaves one possible solution as far as i can tell, and that's the wiring between the tranny and hte tcu. I haven't had 5spare minutes to jumper around it to see if it works, but hopefully i will this upcoming week.

On a second note, my problem is "intermittent", sometimes i would, sometimes it wouldn't. When i would go to start and couldn't get it to engage normal operation, turning it off and restarting it, and repeat the process for up to 30min, i'd normally give up and put in the fwd fuse and drive it to where i needed to go. I didn't like doing that though. Well, i've learned my lesson. Something burned. FWD fuse does not operate as it should anymore. FWD will light up on my dash when i'm in fwd mode, but even with the fwd fuse in, it's not always, only sometimes. I start my car, and if fwd doesn't light up, i have to shut down and try again. With the fuse in i'm not getting fwd function, only the fwd light in the event that it's not binding.

In short, inserting the fwd fuse if you have binding issues is not a good long term fix. I was using it only when i couldn't get fwd to engage, and boom, it no longer functions for me.

Merz · #11 07-21-2007, 09:52 PM

Keep me updated if you figure out whats wrong. Seems like we have similar problems. Sometimes my binding is worse than other times, and sometimes the fwd works, sometimes it doesnt. I replaced sol c and it didnt help. Id hate to end up replacing the transmission and have the binding still be there. Im not very familiar with the wiring of the car. I know where the tcu is but not which wires go to the sol c, or what the voltage is supposed to be. I'll search the network later for a wiring diagram. thanks for the help. good luck.

Tim · #12 10-17-2007, 03:20 PM

Clunking sometimes can be a bad transmission mount if its doing it in reverse.

Merz · #13 10-17-2007, 03:32 PM

Mine binds in reverse also. When i back out of my gravel drive way onto the street, one of the rear wheels will actually spin on the gravel because the binding is so bad. Definately not the tranny mount.
Im interested in what bruce was asking. My fwd fuse works intermittently also.

crazyhorse · #14 10-17-2007, 03:59 PM

OK...Torque Bind is caused by the transfer clutch sticking closed. Pure & simple.

The complexity comes in the WHY the clutch is sticking. There are a few causes of this:

#1, Duty Solenoid C. Could be dirty/sticking, if you put the FWD fuse in & it doesn't help, this is most likely the culprit. Not always, but most often.

#2 Transfer clutch welded closed. This is caused by ignoring Torque bind, and/or running mismatched tires, for a prolonged period of time. The plates are actually fused together.

#3 TCU problems. This is the least likely cause.

A few quick tests, and one "what have you got to lose" fix.

Test #1 Insert the FWD fuse, if the bind goes away, your solenoid is most likely ok.

Test #2 On level pavement turn some tight, slow circles. The car SHOULD move at idle with the wheel just off full lock. If it takes a slight, to moderate rise in idle speed to move, your clutches are sticking. If it takes mashing the gas, you may be too late.

"What do you have to lose fix". Flush your tranny fluid. Drain the old fluid, refill, drive it around the block, repeat 3X. If the binding has just started, this can break the clutches loose, or dislodge some grit from the solenoid.

How do I know this? My Leggy tried to start torque binding, and I did my research over at USMB. I was fortunate, in that flushing my fluid fixed my torqe bind.

Wocketman · #15 10-17-2007, 06:47 PM

Good info. Sounds like I need to go back to the shop...they checked the duty solenoid last year and said they thought it was ok. But it was stuck in AWD soon after that. With the clunks/clicks I'm hearing (front and rear), I probably have other issues too. Sigh. Looks like I'll be late with the mortgage again!