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  #31  
Old 08-27-2009, 08:17 PM
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Re: binding

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Originally Posted by oab_au View Post
Are you sure that it was 11 not 13?
You were complaining about binding problems, 11 is the A solenoid that controls line pressure. 13 is the C solenoid that controls the transfer clutch.

Harvey.
Who know's.... I just need to take it in. Sometimes it feels like my power steering loses power, sometimes the rear wheel feels like it's dragging, does the same with FWD fuse installed. Too much crap going on for me to try to diagnose accurately.
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  #32  
Old 09-03-2009, 05:38 PM
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Re: binding

OK all lets get back to my car here and what we have done and where we are. We were getting the code 11 and bad rear wheel binding. He got on the phone with subaru and they said that the rear speed sensors had to be reprogramed so we did this and then it felt good up till about 40 and did not feel to good was very noisey and the car shifted hard. They said to replace the risister behind the battery. So its replaced and the car is tossing no codes and the car shifts very smooth and the rear wheels feel better. Can that risister cause that much havock on the car?????
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  #33  
Old 09-03-2009, 06:24 PM
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Re: binding

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Originally Posted by fieronews View Post
OK all lets get back to my car here and what we have done and where we are. We were getting the code 11 and bad rear wheel binding. He got on the phone with subaru and they said that the rear speed sensors had to be reprogramed so we did this and then it felt good up till about 40 and did not feel to good was very noisey and the car shifted hard. They said to replace the risister behind the battery. So its replaced and the car is tossing no codes and the car shifts very smooth and the rear wheels feel better. Can that risister cause that much havock on the car?????
If the resistor was open circuit, it would keep the line pressure at full pressure. So that when the TCU sends a percentage of this pressure to the Transfer clutch, it will be higher that it should be, to cause the binding that you had.

Harvey.
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  #34  
Old 09-03-2009, 06:42 PM
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Re: binding

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Originally Posted by fieronews View Post
OK all lets get back to my car here and what we have done and where we are. We were getting the code 11 and bad rear wheel binding. He got on the phone with subaru and they said that the rear speed sensors had to be reprogramed so we did this and then it felt good up till about 40 and did not feel to good was very noisey and the car shifted hard. They said to replace the risister behind the battery. So its replaced and the car is tossing no codes and the car shifts very smooth and the rear wheels feel better. Can that risister cause that much havock on the car?????
A faulty resistor and open circuit resistor would account for the hard shifting. If the code stopped only after replacing the resistor, this is a real puzzle. Are you sure that you did not, and without intent, correct some other fault in the wiring?

This is a very interesting theory but a very, very hard one to justify. It could be more likely if the resistor or connection was a dead or partial through short, or a what could have been short to ground, now corrected. If you are seeking an answer, please check everything, including the original replaced resistor. This should measure 9 - 15 ohms. Most have read 12 ohms.
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  #35  
Old 09-03-2009, 06:48 PM
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Re: binding

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Originally Posted by oab_au View Post
If the resistor was open circuit, it would keep the line pressure at full pressure. So that when the TCU sends a percentage of this pressure to the Transfer clutch, it will be higher that it should be, to cause the binding that you had.

Harvey.
FULL pressure? An open circuit resistor has been shown to not to cause the effects reported. Many have removed the resistor without a similar problem.
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  #36  
Old 09-03-2009, 07:07 PM
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Re: binding

the resistor is there to lower the voltage to the duty solenoid a which conrtols line presure but not the transfer clutches,higher voltage could cause a early failure of the solenoid
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  #37  
Old 09-03-2009, 07:20 PM
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Re: binding

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Originally Posted by trophy956 View Post
the resistor is there to lower the voltage to the duty solenoid a which conrtols line presure but not the transfer clutches,higher voltage could cause a early failure of the solenoid
The resistor when in circuit, has no purpose in respect of line pressure. It provides a separate modified PWM signal, which protects the A solenoid valve against excessive wear.

As a result of the this low voltage signal via the resistor, the valve is prevented from always closing hard against the seat. N.B. The valve moves continuously, at a speed of 50 cycles per second.
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  #38  
Old 09-03-2009, 07:31 PM
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Re: binding

A defective (open circuit) resistor can cause binding at low speed as removing it will effectively cancel out the line pressure reducing action of the transmission control computer as done by solenoid A under some driving conditions including below about 15% throttle opening. Line pressure will be higher than intended and therefore the duty of the transfer solenoid will not translate to the intended amount of apply to the transfer clutch (too much apply) which will cause the binding effect, which should be noticeable if your transfer clutch is in good operating condition. I suspect this will surprise some as the earlier transmissions' sealing rings literally wore grooves in the aluminum extension housing and transfer clutch pressure will leak past them, and that might be enough to alleviate binding when the resistor is unplugged.
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  #39  
Old 09-03-2009, 07:36 PM
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Re: binding

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Originally Posted by Trevor View Post
The resistor when in circuit, has no purpose in respect of line pressure. It provides a separate modified PWM signal, which protects the A solenoid valve against excessive wear.

As a result of the this low voltage signal via the resistor, the valve is prevented from always closing hard against the seat. N.B. The valve moves continuously, at a speed of 50 cycles per second.
wow I am getting confused. should I pull the fuse and go AWD or stay in that FWD mode. she felt really good right now.
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  #40  
Old 09-03-2009, 08:02 PM
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Re: binding

I apologize, both Trevor and I, among others, are intimately familiar with this particular circuit as it is unlike any other circuit on the car. We tend to get long winded and overly technical about it (especially me on the long winded part )

Long story short the resistor's purpose is not to change anything exactly, instead it is meant to help prolong the life of the A solenoid. How it does this, while interesting, is not something relevant to what you're trying to figure out. As we mentioned, the A solenoid controls line pressure. However, when the resistor is not in the circuit, it has the effect of raising line pressure. This is unlikely to cause immediate damage, in fact, some remove the resistor on purpose for this reason. BUT, it is not operating as it was designed.

I want to suggest again that you have the transmission shop connect a line pressure gauge and measure line pressure at the control port and at the transfer port on the extension housing as a first step. All of the problems you are describing are symptoms of abnormal readings that would be found in these tests, and this is the first step in diagnosing your problem

FWD is not a "mode" and you should never drive the car like this unless it is absolutely necessary. If the car drives fine in AWD, leave it there.
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Last edited by NiftySVX; 09-03-2009 at 08:05 PM.
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  #41  
Old 09-03-2009, 09:31 PM
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Re: binding

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Originally Posted by NiftySVX View Post
I apologize, both Trevor and I, among others, are intimately familiar with this particular circuit as it is unlike any other circuit on the car. We tend to get long winded and overly technical about it (especially me on the long winded part )

Long story short the resistor's purpose is not to change anything exactly, instead it is meant to help prolong the life of the A solenoid. How it does this, while interesting, is not something relevant to what you're trying to figure out. As we mentioned, the A solenoid controls line pressure. However, when the resistor is not in the circuit, it has the effect of raising line pressure. This is unlikely to cause immediate damage, in fact, some remove the resistor on purpose for this reason. BUT, it is not operating as it was designed.

I want to suggest again that you have the transmission shop connect a line pressure gauge and measure line pressure at the control port and at the transfer port on the extension housing as a first step. All of the problems you are describing are symptoms of abnormal readings that would be found in these tests, and this is the first step in diagnosing your problem

FWD is not a "mode" and you should never drive the car like this unless it is absolutely necessary. If the car drives fine in AWD, leave it there.
A long winded message very worthy of continuing.

Thank goodness for someone with a brain. I have had to continually put up with all manner of argument and wrong information posted by Harvey over the resistor circuit, since I posted some time ago the information which follows.

Also great that at long last, someone is pushing the use of a pressure gauge when trouble shooting the transmission. Not doing so is like pissing about with electrics in the car, without ensuring that adequate battery voltage is on tap.

I have obtained a nice gauge, which I intend to mount permanently in the car, as a safety measure and for obtaining readings of interest.

THE DROPPING RESISTOR CIRCUIT.

It will be apparent that the sudden on off pulse width modulated duty to which solenoid valve “A” is subject, tends to cause what could be called a hammering of the valve seat, even though this is largely reduced/damped by the controlled fluid flow.

The dropping resistor introduces a second series of current pulses, applied in parallel with the control signal. These pulses are applied across the off cycles, so as to check the travel of the armature as it reaches the closed position, thus reducing both shock and noise. These secondary parallel signals in effect, mean that during the closing period the voltage does not fall completely to zero, so as to reduce a closing shock.

This second series of pulses must be at a lower level than the control signal, hence the dropping resistor. A resistor with a high current rating is required, which could not be mounted within the TCU enclosure.

It will be appreciated that increasing the resistance in the circuit, or opening the circuit by omitting the dropping resistor, has two outcomes. Firstly the voltage during the closed time becomes zero, thus increasing the line pressure and making shifts more abrupt. Secondly, as an undesirable issue, shock loads applied to the valve are increased.

It is a recognized fact, that the line pressure control solenoid is usually the first to fail, due to having to fulfill by far the most arduous duty by operating continuously at 50 cps. Failure is usually mechanical, resulting in the valve seat not closing properly and a reduction in line pressure. The end result can be drastic, especially in respect of transmission friction surfaces.

The resistor should measure between 9 and 15 ohms to be within specifications, and is usually very close to 12 ohms.
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  #42  
Old 09-05-2009, 12:49 AM
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Re: binding

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Originally Posted by trophy956 View Post
the resistor is there to lower the voltage to the duty solenoid a which conrtols line presure but not the transfer clutches,higher voltage could cause a early failure of the solenoid
Yes but they use the same line pressure.

If you consider when the car gets binding, it is under slow speed and light throttle. Under these conditions the line pressure will be low. The TCU will apply a percentage of this low pressure to the Transfer clutch.
This will supply enough clutch pressure to drive, but not bind on the turn.

If the signal to Solenoid A is removed or reduced, the line pressure will be held high, so that the percentage of that high pressure sent to the clutch will be too high, causing it to bind.

The way I see it.
Harvey.
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  #43  
Old 09-05-2009, 08:19 AM
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Re: binding

OK well I pulled the fuse and she was fine till she was on a hill going up at a stop sign. you could here the load on the trans at the spline. it was nasty so I popped the fuse back in and there was no issue. I really want to take the car to another shop now as I stated that I am going to call the insurance company now and I got threatened with go ahead and I will let them know that this caused your diff to pop and you will have to pay all the funds back and know I am charging you for the parts and labor. This is getting out of hand. I just want me car fixed. Its now leave the car with me for testing that he is going to run a bill up on now
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  #44  
Old 09-05-2009, 08:03 PM
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Re: binding

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Originally Posted by oab_au View Post
Yes but they use the same line pressure.

If you consider when the car gets binding, it is under slow speed and light throttle. Under these conditions the line pressure will be low. The TCU will apply a percentage of this low pressure to the Transfer clutch.
This will supply enough clutch pressure to drive, but not bind on the turn.

If the signal to Solenoid A is removed or reduced, the line pressure will be held high, so that the percentage of that high pressure sent to the clutch will be too high, causing it to bind.

The way I see it.
Harvey.
Just what has been seen? How does that seen apply to the post quoted and is receiving comment?

The resistor is NOT there to “to lower the voltage to the duty solenoid which controls line Pressure” but it must be presumed that what has been quoted, is simply a very loose way of trying to describe the protective function. provided by the resistor.

Only a short to ground, within the resistor circuit, “could remove or reduce” the signal to solenoid A, to any significant degree. Nothing of this sort has been suggested. The post is pointless, only adds confusion, and is best ignored.
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  #45  
Old 09-08-2009, 01:37 PM
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Re: binding

well on the way home today. when you slow sown it sounds like a bounch of rocks in the trans are ratteling around. So I dropped it off at the trans shop told him I am calling the insurance company and I need my car fixed correct. So lets see what happens. call the insurance company and told them how I have been treated and they are heading out his way. I gave them most the info that you guys have posted here for help and now lets see what happens now.

Tom
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