New Subaru Impala???

[Shadow248]

Originally posted by greg
As for your families peice of crap caddys, I guess they got lucky or they change their oil before the level is too low. But my fathers caddy does this and two of his neighbors. One neighbor has a 03 DTS the other an 03 STS and my fathers is a 2001 eldorado. I do not think this is a coincidence!

Seeing as those are very new cars, perhaps the problem is unique to the more recent years. Maybe this is a defect that GM doesn't know about or hasn't fixed yet. I don't know. I just don't understand how everyone else is having "all kinds of problems" with their cars yet no one in my family ever has these issues. Coincidence? Not likely. Bull****? More likely.

Originally posted by greg
And to make things worse, my mother will not open a hood therefore she is getting rid of her GM crap and it is already worth nothing. The best she can get for it is 31,000 dollars with 15,000 miles. A $61,000 sticker price and it is worth 50% in one year and a month. I guess everyone knows they are worthless!

Either it's been horribly taken care of or she's not trying hard enough. I've seen one year old off-lease Caddy's sell for 10% below sticker...if they're properly taken care of. That goes for any car. Except Hyundai it seems - they have no resale value no matter what you do. Average depreciation for one-year-old cars is about 30%. Point is, you should be getting about $40,000 for a $60,000 sticker car. On the other hand, if it's got excessive mileage or hasn't been properly cared for, then you could easily see alot less. But that's the owner's fault and not the car. So if it's a clean average mileage car, and that's all she's getting, then she's letting herself get walked on.

[Landshark]

Originally posted by Shadow248
Seeing as those are very new cars, perhaps the problem is unique to the more recent years. Maybe this is a defect that GM doesn't know about or hasn't fixed yet. I don't know. I just don't understand how everyone else is having "all kinds of problems" with their cars yet no one in my family ever has these issues. Coincidence? Not likely. Bull****? More likely.

well, you busted me - i was lying the whole time. the Luminas owned by my brother and i weren't pieces of sh*t, nor was our Cavalier. my brother-in-laws new Gran Prix never makes regular trips to the dealer for things that shouldn't happen to a 1.5 year old car. my uncle's GMC Jimmy is rock-solid. my stepfathers Caprice, Cadillac, and Yukon were always reliable. my friends Z-24 and Z-28 were not rattletraps.

i confessed - now DIE THREAD, DIE!

[Shadow248]

Originally posted by Landshark
i confessed - now DIE THREAD, DIE!

Oh c'mon, I thought we were having a good time here. If you want the thread to end...just don't say anything, it's that easy. When I get tired of posting about a topic, I just don't post. You'll be surprised how well it works.

[Landshark]

Originally posted by Shadow248


Oh c'mon, I thought we were having a good time here. If you want the thread to end...just don't say anything, it's that easy. When I get tired of posting about a topic, I just don't post. You'll be surprised how well it works.

yes, but i just need to have the last word.

Originally posted by Shadow248


Either it's been horribly taken care of or she's not trying hard enough. I've seen one year old off-lease Caddy's sell for 10% below sticker...if they're properly taken care of. That goes for any car. Except Hyundai it seems - they have no resale value no matter what you do. Average depreciation for one-year-old cars is about 30%. Point is, you should be getting about $40,000 for a $60,000 sticker car. On the other hand, if it's got excessive mileage or hasn't been properly cared for, then you could easily see alot less. But that's the owner's fault and not the car. So if it's a clean average mileage car, and that's all she's getting, then she's letting herself get walked on.

Let me refer you to Kelly Blue book, www.kbb.com I beleive...you see her car is very well taken care of. In fact it is imaculate other than one small door ding which was out of her control. Instead of being so defensive for no aparent reason, do some research and I think that you will find the GM cars do loose significant value and are, by other manufatures, considered less than desirable. Therefore the KBBook reflects this stigma in the value they give to cars upon resale. As for $40,000 on a $60,000 I beleive would be right or a little low for most manufatures but it does not stand true for Cadillac. Just goes to show you you can maintain a car and keep it impecable and a GM will still be worthless! As for being walked on, I do not think so, I am not the person for dealers to walk over and I go with her to every visit. I do not except black book and I always walk in equipped with Kelly numbers and NADA numbers. I work at a dealer, I know how the sales things work!

~G

[Shadow248]

Originally posted by greg
Let me refer you to Kelly Blue book, www.kbb.com I beleive...you see her car is very well taken care of. In fact it is imaculate other than one small door ding which was out of her control. Instead of being so defensive for no aparent reason, do some research and I think that you will find the GM cars do loose significant value and are, by other manufatures, considered less than desirable. Therefore the KBBook reflects this stigma in the value they give to cars upon resale. As for $40,000 on a $60,000 I beleive would be right or a little low for most manufatures but it does not stand true for Cadillac. Just goes to show you you can maintain a car and keep it impecable and a GM will still be worthless! As for being walked on, I do not think so, I am not the person for dealers to walk over and I go with her to every visit. I do not except black book and I always walk in equipped with Kelly numbers and NADA numbers. I work at a dealer, I know how the sales things work!

I've done my time in car sales and I can tell you alot. First of all, Cadillacs hold value just fine, in fact, they are just about the best when it comes to domestic cars. I know this because i've seen them traded in and sold. Also, if you work at a dealer, you should know that you NEVER EVER trade in a car...if you do then you are begging to get absolutely RAPED. No dealer wants to pay for a used car...unless they can get a steal of a deal on it and turn around and rape someone else on it. So if you are going by what a dealer offers you, then all bets are off because they will offer abysmal numbers on ANY car. Also, I tried several different cadillacs at KBB and got values right in the range they should be, some a bit higher some a bit lower but that's the way it goes (check notes below). So I am at a loss for where you get this idea about these cars, but I know all this will do nothing to open your eyes, so let's not waste our time on it.

Examples (percentage in parenthesis is depreciation):

2003 Cadillac Seville STS w/15k
sticker price $42,067
current resale (carpoint.com) $31,200-$35,800 (26%-15%)
current resale (kbb.com) $32,505 (27%)

2003 Cadillac Deville DTS w/15k
sticker Price $46,162
current resale (carpoint.com) $30,500 - $38,300 (33%-17%)
current resale (KBB.com) $37,560 (19%)

2003 Cadillac Escalade w/15k
sticker price $66,800
current resale (KBB.com) $45,250 (32%)
*carpoint.com had no data on 2003 resale value

Note: I also checked out the 2003 CTS but that seemed to be some sort of exception, on both carpoint and KBB it was seeing less than 10% depreciation in one year's time. I figured that was an unfair example so I left it out.

So as you can see by my examples, most of these cars are selling for way better than "average" resale prices, at worst, they are getting average numbers.

[Landshark]

Originally posted by Shadow248
you should know that you NEVER EVER trade in a car...if you do then you are begging to get absolutely RAPED.

i traded in my '87 Lesabre T-Type and wife's '92 Cavalier on the WRX. i was going to sell them on my own for $2000 Lesabre, $1500 Cavalier. the Subaru dealer gave me $4000 for both. no aggravation of phonecalls and tire-kickers. that's in addition to the beating i had already put on that young salesman for the purchase price.

nevAr say nevAr.

[Shadow248]

Originally posted by Landshark
traded in my '87 Lesabre T-Type and wife's '92 Cavalier on the WRX. i was going to sell them on my own for $2000 Lesabre, $1500 Cavalier. the Subaru dealer gave me $4000 for both. no aggravation of phonecalls and tire-kickers. that's in addition to the beating i had already put on that young salesman for the purchase price.

Do you happen to know what the markup on the car your were buying was? I'm sure the WRX has a pretty hefty margin. That's a common trick if someone is buying a high-ticket car. For instance, when I worked at the GMC/Pontiac dealer, a guy was buying a 2002 Yukon XL Denali ($55,200). That truck had a $12,000 markup. My sales manager instructed me to offer "whatever he wanted" on his trade. Thus, instead of being so negotiable on the new truck, we could take a couple grand from the markup on the truck to make it look like he was getting a great price on his trade. I'm sure that's what they did in your case.

[SubaSteevo]

Originally posted by Landshark

that's in addition to the beating i had already put on that young salesman for the purchase price.

Since he negotiated the new vehicle price first (as you always should without mentioning a trade), no he did not get a bad deal Shadow. Now just let it DIE!

[Shadow248]

Originally posted by BurgundBeast
Since he negotiated the new vehicle price first (as you always should without mentioning a trade), no he did not get a bad deal Shadow. Now just let it DIE!

First, there is no such thing as "not getting a bad deal" when buying a car - if he got more money for his trade then he should have, that simply means that they took money from the margin on the new car to compensate. Doesn't matter if you mention a trade or not. The scenario I mentioned with the Denali - when my boss said to offer what he wanted on his trade, that was before we even knew he had a trade. Those people are not stupid, they do that stuff every day, they know you better than you know you. Regardless of how much he thinks he negotiated, there was still money left to give on that new WRX.

Second, don't come after me about this thread going on and on, I gave up on it quite some time ago, but as at least one other member has said, some people always just have to have the last word.

As far as i'm concerned this thread is over. Unless someone decides to make some smart-ass comment that they know is going to make me mad and draw me back into it.

Landshark - thanks for another compelling discussion, I look forward to our next one.

[Landshark]

Originally posted by Shadow248
Do you happen to know what the markup on the car your were buying was?

yes, but i don't remember exactly what it was now.

I'm sure the WRX has a pretty hefty margin. That's a common trick if someone is buying a high-ticket car. For instance, when I worked at the GMC/Pontiac dealer, a guy was buying a 2002 Yukon XL Denali ($55,200). That truck had a $12,000 markup. My sales manager instructed me to offer "whatever he wanted" on his trade. Thus, instead of being so negotiable on the new truck, we could take a couple grand from the markup on the truck to make it look like he was getting a great price on his trade. I'm sure that's what they did in your case.

no, that wasn't my case. actually, i didn't just get off the boat and say, "golly, look at the pretty shiny car!" and hand over my wallet. i thoroughly researched all cars in the market in my price range, new and used (not just Subarus ), and looked for the safest, all-weather, reliable car i could find, with fun-factor. the WRX was it. 4-door utility and safety for the wife, turbo-charged exponential acceleration for me.

i don't remember exactly what the dealer cost was, but i remember the average price paid for stripped down 5-speeds on NASIOC was $24.5-$25k. i got mine for $24k - loaded (carbon fiber interior trim, upgraded sound system, powered sub, armrest extension, factory boost gauge, etc.) the auto was also a $1000 option. wife WANTED auto, but i'm glad i got it. it has the more advanced AWD system, and can hold a lot more power than the 5-speed if i should decide to mod it. its still very fast.

after the $4k trade-in, it was $20k, brand new. from what i remember they made a few hundred bucks over dealer cost.

[Shadow248]

Originally posted by Landshark
after the $4k trade-in, it was $20k, brand new. from what i remember they made a few hundred bucks over dealer cost.

Hey man i'm not trying to make you sound like a loser or anything. I'm sure you did as good as anyone can do buying a car. The point is that so many people think they waltz into a dealer and completely rule the deal. They are so wrong. Dealers are in the business to make money, plain and simple. The amount of tricks they have is mind-blowing. Dishonesty is the only way to survive in that field, thus the reason I couldn't handle it. I couldn't lie to people, thus I couldn't sell cars.

Now let's look at this logically.

I checked the Blue Book to try to get an estimate of what your two trades are worth, it gave me $650 for the Buick and $1000 for the Cavi. Now since you for whatever reason had the idea they were worth much more, and I know you are not a moron, AND i don't know how long ago this deal took place, i'm going to roll with that and call them both at $1000 a piece. Maybe they were really low mileage or something. Anyway that's an EXTREMELY liberal estimate for what a dealer might give you for those cars. So we'll just say that somehow the dealer thought they could get $2000 for those cars at auction or whatever, but they gave you $4000. Where did that extra $2000 come from? Had to come from somewhere. IT CAME FROM THE NEW CAR'S MARKUP. How else would they give you that kind of money? They sure as **** are not going in on a deal in which they are going to LOSE money. How would they survive? No matter what a dealer tells you, no matter what "invoice" they show you that says they are making no money, they are. Anyone who thinks otherwise needs mental help. I can't tell you how many people came into the dealers that I worked at demanding to see the invoice. We, of course, showed them the "invoice" and negotiated a price based on said sheet of paper. They thought they ripped us off, we made good money. Everyone was happy (except me, who couldn't sleep at night and had no money to show for it anyway).

Again, i'm not trying to make you look or feel stupid. This is what everyone has to deal with when buying a new car. Like I said i'm sure you did as good as you could have done given the circumstances. But you have to understand what i'm talking about here, don't you?

[Landshark]

Originally posted by Shadow248
I checked the Blue Book to try to get an estimate of what your two trades are worth, it gave me $650 for the Buick and $1000 for the Cavi. ........ Like I said i'm sure you did as good as you could have done given the circumstances. But you have to understand what i'm talking about here, don't you?

they originally offered me $500 for the Buick. they were thinking it was some old POS. well, it was a POS, but it was a nice-looking, kinda not your everyday Buick POS.


i understand dealers are in the business to make money, they don't sell cars out of the kindness of their heart. i knew the dealer cost of the WRX, and by my estimates they made a few hundred dollars on it. they also made money on the extended warranty. i think they wanted to move it, because all the kids coming in wanted a 5-speed. also, there was a slightly used 5000 mile silver auto WRX at another dealer that i kept telling my wife during negotiations "we don't need a new one, let's just get the other one...." the kid needed to make a sale, even if he didn't net the big score.

[Shadow248]

Well then this argument is settled.