Neon smokes a 'stang gt

[Chicane]

Quit arguing with him. He's GM loyal. This means he will never admit when he's wrong, and will never say anything worth listening to.

Maybe I'm being harsh, but seriously Shadow, I've argued with you before, and you looked rahter...eh. well, you lost. And now, you're doing the same thing, with someone else.

Bah. Whatever.

- Rob

[Shadow248]

Quit arguing with him. He's GM loyal. This means he will never admit when he's wrong, and will never say anything worth listening to.

I have never seen so much irony in such a small space. You might as well be a skunk complaining about the smell of a garbage pile. YOU ARE THE ABSOLUTE LAST PERSON who is qualified to make a comment such as that. As such, I need say nothing more about it.

Maybe I'm being harsh, but seriously Shadow, I've argued with you before, and you looked rahter...eh. well, you lost. And now, you're doing the same thing, with someone else.

You seem to be the only one i've ever talked to on these boards that thinks "i lost to you" on ANY of our arguments. You lost the second you used the word NEON. Seriously, ask around, and you'll be surprised at what people actually think. But then why am i arguing about this? I might lose again!

you answer your own challenge, and then ask me what *MY* point is?

I hope you can read, and that you just HAPPENED to miss the ENTIRE point of my post for the THIRD TIME. The point (once again) was that the ZL-1 is completely street legal - with great A/C and heat, full leather interior with all the options, and a great sound system. Also, and probably most importantly, it runs on pump gas...the very same fluid used in the SVX - 93 octane.

[petesvx2]

Originally posted by marlettpat
all power to neons. they are quick. thats fine. but they are cheap cars if i am correct. i would much rather have a nice heavy svx that i can have fun in, maybe race a few cars, and if i would get in a wreck still be living. my perspective....

I agree 100%...plus add in the AWD and bingo bango, we're good in snow too

[Landshark]

Originally posted by Shadow248
"....it doesn't matter what's under the hood of that lancer, it's still a lancer. It's a law of nature...you can't change what a car is by changing what it can do."
.............
"I have never seen so much irony in such a small space."
.............
"The Camaro ZL-1 has 825hp and runs 0-60 in less than 2 seconds, with a price tag of about $100,000."

so a $25,000 AWD performance Lancer (as based on the World Rally Racecar) is ridiculous, but a $100,000 Camaro is a good idea?

<whisper> I hate to break it to you, but Camaros aren't exactly known as world-class sports cars. </whisper>

[Chicane]

Originally posted by Shadow248
YOU ARE THE ABSOLUTE LAST PERSON who is qualified to make a comment such as that.

hrm....

You lost the second you used the word NEON.

Another post overflowing with intelligence.

- Rob

[Shadow248]

Another post overflowing with intelligence.

Ever think of changing your screen name to "King-of-Irony"?

so a $25,000 AWD performance Lancer (as based on the World Rally Racecar) is ridiculous, but a $100,000 Camaro is a good idea?

The lancer you are speaking of is a production vehicle...the camaro i am speaking of is a hand built, VERY LIMITED production (10 made) vehicle. Bit different, yes.

I hate to break it to you, but Camaros aren't exactly known as world-class sports cars.

That's a matter of opinion (Car&Driver has referred to them as such repeatedly). But I do get your point, they're no Ferrari. At least they are known as sports cars. That's a bit different than a four-door economy car trying to be a sports car.

[petesvx2]

Originally posted by Shadow248
[B]
the camaro i am speaking of is a hand built, VERY LIMITED production (10 made) vehicle. Bit different, yes.

This site claims there were more than 10 made...

http://www.dealsonwheels.com/search/...-200309-000011

That's a bit different than a four-door economy car trying to be a sports car.

I believe the Sports Car came before the economy car in this timeline. We just got the econo Lancer (OZ ) after years of *****in for the real deal. That was just to mess with our heads till the real deal came over. Anyways i always thought the car was built as the Sports car first then the girly man versions came after.

[Shadow248]

Originally posted by petesvx2


This site claims there were more than 10 made...

http://www.dealsonwheels.com/search/...-200309-000011

Actually, that's CMMG's commemorative knockoff. A nice car nonetheless, but not the one i'm speaking of. The car i mentioned was Jon Moss's 2000 ZL-1, and no, im not sure about the production numbers, but it can't be much more than 10 or so. The CMMG car is just over 600hp, the 2000 ZL-1 is 825hp.

[petesvx2]

Originally posted by Shadow248


Actually, that's CMMG's commemorative knockoff. A nice car nonetheless, but not the one i'm speaking of. The car i mentioned was Brian Moss's 2000 ZL-1, and no, im not sure about the production numbers, but it can't be much more than 10 or so. The CMMG car is just over 600hp, the 2000 ZL-1 is 825hp.

Ok.

[Landshark]

Originally posted by Shadow248
...the camaro i am speaking of is a hand built, VERY LIMITED production (10 made) vehicle. Bit different, yes.

no, not different. it is still a Camaro. in my mind, Camaro's are crappy, second rate sports cars, just as you think EVO's are essentially just 4-door econoboxes. ok, its a ridiculously expensive Camaro, but still a Camaro. if i had $100,000 to spend on a car, it sure as hell wouldn't be on a Camaro, no matter how much hp you stuff under the hood.

the EVO and STi aren't trying to be sports cars - they are based on real world rally race cars. what is the ZL-1? somebodys drag strip frankenstein dream?

[Shadow248]

no, not different. it is still a Camaro. in my mind, Camaro's are crappy, second rate sports cars, just as you think EVO's are essentially just 4-door econoboxes. ok, its a ridiculously expensive Camaro, but still a Camaro. if i had $100,000 to spend on a car, it sure as hell wouldn't be on a Camaro, no matter how much hp you stuff under the hood.

Hey I never said i'd buy it either. It's just nice to know that cars like that exist. To know that we, as humans, are capable of building such machines. You are certainly entitled to your opinion of ANY car for that matter, just as I have expressed my opinions about the cars you like. It's true though, if I had $100,000, it is very unlikely that I would spend it on a camaro. Actually, it's very unlikely that i would spend it on a car at all.

what is the ZL-1? somebodys drag strip frankenstein dream?

Damn straight. Every great accomplishment begins with a dream.

[Landshark]

Originally posted by Shadow248
no, not different. it is still a Camaro. in my mind, Camaro's are crappy, second rate sports cars, just as you think EVO's are essentially just 4-door econoboxes. ok, its a ridiculously expensive Camaro, but still a Camaro. if i had $100,000 to spend on a car, it sure as hell wouldn't be on a Camaro, no matter how much hp you stuff under the hood.

Hey I never said i'd buy it either. It's just nice to know that cars like that exist. To know that we, as humans, are capable of building such machines. You are certainly entitled to your opinion of ANY car for that matter, just as I have expressed my opinions about the cars you like. It's true though, if I had $100,000, it is very unlikely that I would spend it on a camaro. Actually, it's very unlikely that i would spend it on a car at all.

what is the ZL-1? somebodys drag strip frankenstein dream?

Damn straight. Every great accomplishment begins with a dream.

you are straying from the point .

the point: you say EVO's and STi's are econoboxes with 4 cylinder engines that will never be the equal of a V8.....blah blah blah.

i just read up on your precious ZL-1: 10.x sec 1/4 mile, 770hp, $100,000

EasyStreet WRX: 9.x sec 1/4 mile, less than 600hp (forget exact figure), much less than $100,000

it seems that the less expensive and less powerful little 4 cylinder has the performance edge on the ZL-1.

So for you to write off the T/A because it has less horsepower is quite an oversight.

i guess i'll have to agree with you here - its not the amount of horsepower, its how it is used that counts. a 10,000hp Camaro means nothing if it can't beat a lowly 4-cylinder rally car at the drag strip. therefore EasyStreet WRX > ZL-1 Camaro.

[petesvx2]

Why not take that $100,000 and buy 200,000 Geo Metro's, slap a huge wing on it, some stickers, and viola! Instant 800 hp. In fact, steal an AWD emblem off a forester, and you're good to go in the snow.

[Shadow248]

you are straying from the point .

Yeah i was hoping to end this argument, but alas, i failed.

just read up on your precious ZL-1: 10.x sec 1/4 mile, 770hp, $100,000

See the thing you have to understand about the ZL-1 designation is that to Camaro owners it's alot like STI is to Subaru owners (i've seen so many wrx's of years ago with STI stickers as of late), so there are alot of fakes and knockoffs. Even more confusing, there are several of "the real deal" too. Jon Moss started the new Generation ZL-1s with the F-body redesign in 1998, he then revamped the car in 1999, and again in 2000. It started out with a 427 cranking a little over 600hp (same engine the CMMG cars have), then in 1999 he tossed in a big block (rated at 770hp, the car you saw), then in 2000 the engine was further tuned to 825hp.

Even the 1999 (770hp) car ran faster times than that WRX you mentioned. The "official" 1/4 mile time for the 1999 ZL-1 is considered to be 9.5sec@144mph, that's not the best time mind you, it's the most repeatable time by the car. The BEST time ever recorded for that WRX was 9.98sec@141mph - which even the article concedes was under perfect conditions. So even on your terms, the ZL-1 is still faster. If you consider the car i spoke of, the 2000 ZL-1 (825hp) then it's not even close. That car regularly broke into the high 8's. I'm checking through my magazine back stock to find the issue of Hot Rod that had the feature on that car. That's the only place i've ever seen it. But regardless of if i find that one or not, even the 1999 car proves my point.

To add to all that, the ZL-1 is Naturally aspirated power...meaning it is very dependable and actually quite low maintenance (considering). It's based on the very same technology in the plain old LS-1 camaro. Not to mention that the engine in the ZL-1 is capable of far more power than it has even now. The engine in that WRX is on the edge of oblivion. Throw a turbo system on the ZL-1 (like that WRX has) and you're looking at over 1000hp easy. But that would totally go against Jon Moss' mission.

Finally, and once again, the ZL-1 is completely street legal, with all amenities in place and functioning (except for one detail i omitted - at the time of the article, the 2000 ZL-1 had it's stereo removed for dashboard work, though im sure it's back in by now). That WRX is completely stripped.

I have to note, because i always say i learn something by arguments, here is an example. I never thought a WRX could break the 10sec mark. So good job on that find and i appreciate your good spirit about our discussion. That sure is one hell of a subaru.

Why not take that $100,000 and buy 200,000 Geo Metro's, slap a huge wing on it, some stickers, and viola! Instant 800 hp. In fact, steal an AWD emblem off a forester, and you're good to go in the snow.

Good idea, then maybe i could finally beat that ever-elusive neon.