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  #1  
Old 09-11-2005, 11:35 AM
Szalkerous Szalkerous is offline
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Help with throttle body Q???

Hey Folks!

Yes, I'm still around, and still got my SVX, although I barely drive the poor thing, and I've gotten a substancial raise at my job which FINALLY gives me a little free money to start fixin the ol' SVX up....

Now I noticed I've had the same stubborn idle issues that others have had in the past, with rough starts but once it warms up it seems ok....

So finally I bit the bullet, and told myself I'm rippin the throttle body offa the car and giving it a go washin.

Now as I pull the TB off, I'm removing vent lines, vacuum lines, etc.

I'm starting to notice a sticky residue on the insides....

I finally remove the entire TB assembly and pull it away from the car... the insides are GUNKED with a good 1/8th inch or so of this tar-like resin. Didn't seem to smell like anything imparticular...

I also noticed it penetrates into the runners on the intake, should I pull that and soak it as well????

So I've just let it sit in solvent for some time now, lookin purty again. I then drag my attention to the module I removed from the bottom of the TB.... with a sensor-like plug attached. After playing with this for some time, I realize it's some kind of electro-magnetic valve that provides air within the butterflies to pass through a large hose.

WHAT IS THIS MODULE FOR?!

It seems to me, after also noticing it has adjuster brackets not unlike the TPS ones on it. Could this be the missing link??? IS this why I've had so many issues with idling? Perhaps the electro module is past it's prime and not opening that valve during times where it is needed (ie cold starts)????

I noticed that whereas the gunk did seep down into that module somewhat, if I open the valve and look inside, I see bare metal, which tells me there isn't a gunk up on the inside of it. A test blow through it as I open the valve confirms my suspicion.

Does anyone have any idea what that module is, and what it's role in the system is?

EDIT: Subaruparts.COM lists it as the following (under engine/TB):
22650 $196.98 Valve assembly-air control

THANKS GUYS!

Btw- Miss the board a ton! New job keeps me busy all day, not much time to come back on... but maybe with the new funding pouring into the svx, I can frequent more often without feeling that tinge of regret and sadness at my own poor SVX being cold on the driveway.... but I can't let it go, ever. I'll fight for it, even if it makes my day just to see it as I leave every morning.

-Sz
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Last edited by Szalkerous; 09-11-2005 at 11:39 AM.
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Old 09-11-2005, 11:51 AM
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I think you are talking about the IAC valve but could you take a picture to make sure?

valvoline synthetic throttle body cleaner spray works very well at removing the gunk you have in there. You can use it to clean the intake if you don't want to mess with removing it.

If it was me I'd remove the intake and clean it thoroughly. It is probably in worse shape than the throttle body.
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Old 09-11-2005, 01:28 PM
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The IAC is primarily for warm idle. There is a second idle controller under the intake that increases the idle during warm-up. Can't hurt to have a look at it also.

Just because you can see shiny inside the IAC doesn't necessarily mean that the valve is working freely - do a good job of flushing it out. DO NOT attempt to change any of the adjustments, they are done at the factory on a flow bench. Be sure to also clean the t-body bores where the butterflies rest, the gunk that builds up there can cause TPS variations and not allow the throttle valves to consistently close in one spot. The gunk is hot oil vapor from the crankcase that condenses on the relatively cold t-body surfaces. Be sure to also clean or replace your pcv valve to prolong your good work.
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Old 09-11-2005, 01:46 PM
Szalkerous Szalkerous is offline
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Hot oil vapor you say? Sounds logical to me!!

I'm glad you mentioned the "don't adjust"... I was contemplating tweaking it a little... I'll just let it be...

So with that level of buildup....(the motor has 130k and to the best of my knowledge has never been cleaned out by hand)... the common preference is to remove the intake as well??

Anyone have any handy tips for that? I see the obvious bolts....are there any hard to reach time killer bolts in there?

EDIT: Okay yeah... it is a pretty sucky project. I removed everything that there bolt-wise, but I'm having something stubbron holding it down, mainly that stupid preformed metal lined rubber hose immediately under it. it feels like that is going to break if I yank on it.... what to do what to do?

Guess it's going to have to wait till next weekend. I bolted the manifold back down a little and plugged the TB holes. should I be concerned about anything else?

P.S. I also noticed immediately under the plenium intake is pretty coated with oil. Looks like this has gotta come off, there's all sorts of issues goin on under there.

-Sz
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Last edited by Szalkerous; 09-11-2005 at 05:40 PM.
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Old 09-12-2005, 07:44 AM
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If you remove the intake be prepared with some 1/8th inch vacuum hose to replace all the cracked and brittle one's you will find under there.

Unbolt the metal fuel line mount tabs from the intake and they will stay on the engine.
Some of the vacuum hoses and the PCV hose have to be removed to get the intake off. Be extra careful removing any vacuum hoses that connect to solenoids on the underside of the intake. The plastic on the solenoids that they fit onto will be brittle. Also - take a picture or map out the vacuum hose routings - when you replace them with bulk hose their routing will be alot less obvious than the preformed ones you removed.

Like Beav said, a PCV valve would be a good idea now and it will be alot easier once the intake is off.

One other thing - sometimes the intake gaskets come apart. I have reused them before but at 130k they may separate on you so be prepared.
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  #6  
Old 09-12-2005, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by immortal_suby
...

Unbolt the metal fuel line mount tabs from the intake and they will stay on the engine.
...
I didn't think it would be possible to pull the intake manifold off while leaving the metal fuel and vacuum lines in place. I ended up disconnecting the metal fuel lines at the fuel rail and removing the fpr. I had to bend one of the metal fuel lines a little bit to get it past the air con line, but otherwise, the manifold + metal fuel lines (+ fuel injector harness) came off pretty cleanly.
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Old 09-12-2005, 05:07 PM
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I've done it 3 times now and left the metal lines on the engine each time. I'll have to give it a try with keeping them on the intake next time. Seems pretty easy to leave them on the engine though.
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92 Ebony LS-L ECUtune Stage2av1, Z32 MAF, 370cc injectors, TomsSVX intake, BontragerWorks 22mm RSB #003, HID Hi and Lo beams, OT endlink and bushing mods, PWR Aluminum radiator, Harvey's QC shift kit, 2.5" flowmaster 80 exhaust, 17" Michelin Pilot Sport A/S, Poly sway bar bushings, Slotted Bradi rotors, AFBeefcake powdercoated calipers, 97 grill, and a huge set of air horns. 300,000 miles and counting
92 Ebony LS-L. ecutune stage1v4, motorsport 1pc pulley. Garage Queen - sold to Dad in upstate NY 155,000 miles
19 Subaru Ascent Premium - -Hers !.
89 DL 4x4 little red wagon - a.k.a. The immortal suby. 275k R.I.P.
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Old 09-12-2005, 06:00 PM
Szalkerous Szalkerous is offline
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Well I seem to be doing better than most, I haven't detected ANY brittle lines yet.... HOWEVER, I have yet to get at the lines underneath the manifold [plenium]. Are these the lines in question? If so, how many are there?

I'm trying to get a scope on what's left after the bolts have been removed.

I now have a grasp on what/where the PCV is, how is the preferred method of removal? Unbolting then removing from the hose/pipe? I saw the long thread on PCV removal.... I'll have to go down to Sears and find something nifty to get at it.

Other than the PCV.... what am I looking for? Anyone off the top of their heads know where?

As much as it gets me slightly nervous to do all this, I trust it is for the better good of my lil suby. I think I'm going to do the rocker cover gaskets while I'm ordering the new plenium gaskets for the intake. I believe they leak.... but now that I'm almost 100% certain the PCV / breathers are backing up oil into the intake system, maybe they were forcing the rocker leaks? Oh well, better safe than sorry, and I'm sure I'll have to do them eventually anyways.

I was also thinking of doing the FPR... that seems very straightforwardly placed on/directly-next-to the fuel rail... Oh, and a new fuel filter since I'll be killing the pressure to remove the intake...

Oh and ANOTHER question...LOL.... does a bad/faulty coil throw a CEL? I have no CEL at the moment, but I'm wondering if that's a necessary item.

.....you think all this is much, you should see all four brakes from sitting motionless through two New England years. Very embarassing.

-Sz

Anything else to change while I'm in there????
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Old 09-12-2005, 06:51 PM
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You can easily access the PCV valve once you remove the intake manifold. No need to buy any special tools. A simple deep-well 19 mm socket is all you need.

Most all the hard/brittle lines are under the intake manifold. The vacuum lines in the vicinity of the fpr will probably also be hard.

I removed the metal fuel line and the wiring harness along with the manifold. If you go that route, besides, the eight bolts attaching the intake manifold to the fuel injector runners, you'll need to:

1) Disconnect the electrical plugs on the fuel injectors and the plugs on the sensor going to the PS pump and the sensor at the back of the intake manifold.
2) Remove the fpr
3) Disconnect the hose going to the PCV valve. You can disconnect it at the crank case.
4) Pull the vacuum line going to the brake booster.
5) Remove the electrical plug that goes to the aux air controller on the driver side of the engine under the intake manifold.
6) Remove all the bolts holding the metal fuel lines to the fuel rails.
7) Remove the fuel lines attaching to the intake manifold.
8) Remove the vapor lines going to the charcoal canister.
9) Disconnect the plugs between the fuel injector harness and the main wiring harness
10) Remove a bolt at the passenger side rear of the engine that secures the metal fuel lines to the cylinder head.
11) Disconnect the two vacuum hoses that go from the egr system to the metal vacuum lines at the passenger side rear of the intake manifold.

The intake manifold + metal fuel lines + injector wiring harness will all come off as one piece. You'll have to slightly bend the metal fuel line to clear the air con pipe at the driver side front of the intake manifold. There's a picture in my locker showing all the vacuum lines that I replaced under the manifold. I also replaced both the PCV hoses attached to the crankcase, and I replaced the three vacuum lines associated with the egr system.

Might as well replace the knock sensors while you have the intake manifold off.
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Old 09-13-2005, 08:19 AM
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Hmm - sounds a little more difficult to do it that way.

I leave the fuel lines in place, just unbolt the tabs that mount them to the manifold. The wiring harness and brake booster and fpr all stay on the engine.
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92 Ebony LS-L. ecutune stage1v4, motorsport 1pc pulley. Garage Queen - sold to Dad in upstate NY 155,000 miles
19 Subaru Ascent Premium - -Hers !.
89 DL 4x4 little red wagon - a.k.a. The immortal suby. 275k R.I.P.
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Old 09-13-2005, 08:51 AM
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How do you unplug all the electrical connections and hoses under the manifold? I was initially going to do it the way you have done it, but I couldn't figure out how I was going to unplug those items. I was sure that I would break something or just not be able to do it.
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SVX Mods: ND iridium spark plugs, Impreza RS fpr, afr tuned to 13.2:1 using a custom MAF bypass, custom exhaust, WRX 5MT w/ STi RA 1st-4th gear & stock WRX 5th gear, Exedy 13 lb flywheel & Sport Clutch, STi Group N tranny & engine mounts, urethane spacers in rear subframe, rear diff mounts, and pitch stopper, SVX Sport Strut Springs (185f/150r), custom 19 mm rear swaybar, urethane swaybar mounts, Rota Torque 17x8", 225/45-17 Proxes 4 tires, Axxis Deluxe Plus organic brake pads.
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Old 09-13-2005, 09:29 AM
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I use 2 screwdrivers - one to depress the tab and the other to push down on the connector.

PCV hose I use a screwdriver to push it off the valve.

The small hoses I do the same - push them off with a screwdriver. Most of them slide right off.

If you make the replacement vacuum hoses a little longer than the originals you can get them on with your hand before you set the intake all the way down.

Forgot to mention - the one hose going toward the front has a one way valve inline. I forget what it connects to - I think the vacuum box for the IRIS valve. Be careful with that thing - it likes to pop open and shoot the little spring and plunger out.
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92 Ebony LS-L ECUtune Stage2av1, Z32 MAF, 370cc injectors, TomsSVX intake, BontragerWorks 22mm RSB #003, HID Hi and Lo beams, OT endlink and bushing mods, PWR Aluminum radiator, Harvey's QC shift kit, 2.5" flowmaster 80 exhaust, 17" Michelin Pilot Sport A/S, Poly sway bar bushings, Slotted Bradi rotors, AFBeefcake powdercoated calipers, 97 grill, and a huge set of air horns. 300,000 miles and counting
92 Ebony LS-L. ecutune stage1v4, motorsport 1pc pulley. Garage Queen - sold to Dad in upstate NY 155,000 miles
19 Subaru Ascent Premium - -Hers !.
89 DL 4x4 little red wagon - a.k.a. The immortal suby. 275k R.I.P.
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Old 09-24-2005, 10:11 AM
Szalkerous Szalkerous is offline
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Yep okay, that was officially the most difficult thing ever.

Now finally having a free weekend without rain, and regardless of the horrible cold I have, I was determined to get that off today. God help me trying to get it all back together.

I could not, for love or money, get the hose off the PVC valve.I could wiggle it left and right, but would NOT come off. THe fuel lines were terrible too, I finally had to just tell myself I can replace them if I break them, and start wrenching them off with a needlenose. Painful, yes... but done very carefully, and then by hand once they were loose enough. I inspected them well, and they didn't sustain any damage. Phew.

The electrical connectors were second to last before getting the plenium off. Once I was able to lift it a few inches I could access them easier to wiggle them all off.

I finally had to, sadly enough, pull the entire plenium upwards and wriggle it off the PVC hose.

Unfortunately I didn't read immortal's warning on that IRIS valve, which is believe is the little inline piece that reads "TO EGR". Yep, that's all done. And the remaining inch of hose going to the unit broke. Other than that, the rest of my hoses are all intact and in decent shape. a little hard, but useable. I also noticed that there were cracks at the end of some of the hoses..... I'm sure that wasn't helping my idle issues AT ALL. I pray that Subaru sells that little inline piece separately.

Now that I have the plenium off, with much celebration and shouts of joy in my driveway (I'm sure to the wonderment of all the neighbors) I have it under my scrutiny and I see that butterfly IRIS unit (I am correct? the one directly under the intake, that controls that valve between the left and right?) it is soaked with oil, all around the gasket. Is it worth it, at this point, to crack those four nuts off and inspect? I don't want a suprise of springs and other tiny components flying everywhere.

I also noticed that under my intake was all kinds of ridiculous animal nests and eaten acorns, bedding etc.I'll have to shopvac it all out. Ick.

I'm going to go start scrubbing the intake out, and hopefully when I go grab my replacement parts someone here might have the compassion to guide me through the reassembly nightmare that's sure to ensue.

LOL.... I wish I had a digital camera, I'd take pictures for future reference.

-Sz
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Old 09-24-2005, 01:26 PM
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You can take the IRIS valve off. No worries- nothing is going to pop out of there. It will give you a good access point to clean up more of the intake too.

The little inline check valve thing that you broke - I've been running without one for a while with no problems. You could probably find a generic one at a local parts store.
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92 Ebony LS-L ECUtune Stage2av1, Z32 MAF, 370cc injectors, TomsSVX intake, BontragerWorks 22mm RSB #003, HID Hi and Lo beams, OT endlink and bushing mods, PWR Aluminum radiator, Harvey's QC shift kit, 2.5" flowmaster 80 exhaust, 17" Michelin Pilot Sport A/S, Poly sway bar bushings, Slotted Bradi rotors, AFBeefcake powdercoated calipers, 97 grill, and a huge set of air horns. 300,000 miles and counting
92 Ebony LS-L. ecutune stage1v4, motorsport 1pc pulley. Garage Queen - sold to Dad in upstate NY 155,000 miles
19 Subaru Ascent Premium - -Hers !.
89 DL 4x4 little red wagon - a.k.a. The immortal suby. 275k R.I.P.
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Old 09-30-2005, 01:56 PM
Szalkerous Szalkerous is offline
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New check valve from Subaru - $28

Oy.

-Sz
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