FADE no Power after startup

[James Scott]

Many of you are familiar with the rough idle/shudder problem I've had since November [ INTERMITTENT - so a real B#*@H to trace!] It's much better now (don't know exactly why! - YIKES!), but still has a mild and brief rough idle (sometimes) on startup (after hours on non-use). The shudder is milder and very infrequent and very short-lived.

Now, what I've started to notice is a fairly common "gutless" period (about one minute) after startup (after car sits for hours). After starting to drive off, when I give it gas, nothing happens! It just sort of coasts along. It doesn't stop. The engine doesn't die if I stop the car in neutral. It doesn't accelerate. It just sort of slimes along - for a minute (30 to 90 seconds at the most). Then suddenly it will begin to work, and it accelerates off.

ANY IDEAS GUYS? THANKS for any help!

[James Scott]

HELP! SOMEONE! ANY IDEAS?

Any help or even ideas would be greatly appreciated.

[LarryIII]

This is only a guess. Sounds something like a wire or boot connection is cold and not making full contact. Then it warms up and makes full contact. Then you get full power. Between the time your car had rough idle and the "slime along condition" did you move any wiring or electrical connections? it sounds to me like there is some main wire that has an almost short or open circuit that is somewhat intermittent.
Finding it will be a process of elimination and will take much time and patience.

Have you ever checked the condition of your sparkplugs ?

[James Scott]

Thanks for the guess. People are getting tired of my threads about this engine problem!

The first thing I did in November was to replace the plugs - NO CHANGE! I've cleaned the throttle body/IAC(Beav), located "dead" cylinder during "old" rough idle/shudder problem, replaced coil pack and injector at "dead" cylinder, started checking voltages/resistance of some important harnesses/connectors (until found so many "typo" errors in trouble shooting section of shop manual!), removed "Tornado" gizmo which swirled the air in intake tube (late nite TV), cleaned MAF sensor with contact cleaner, cleaned/checked ground points, recently performed Alternator wiring MOD, bought new dry Optima battery.

Noone can figure this one out (and as you can see the symptoms are changing somewhat [for the better, Thank God!]). Beav says to take it to a good mechanic ("it should be easy to locate"), but intermittent problems are even worse for someone ELSE to fix! I took it 6 different days in Nov.2002 - they said it didn't do the rough idle (12 different opportunities) and they concluded I needed a tranny because of the shudder ($6000)! [WRONG!] I've talked to different techs, noone has any new idea. . . . . and since it's intermittent, it's almost IMPOSSIBLE TO DIAGNOSE!

I agree that it is something that is heating up to function better (I forgot, the second thing I bought was a temperature sensor for the engine!). PLEASE KEEP THINKING ABOUT THIS - I APPRECIATE ANY INPUT

THANKS!!!

P.S. I also used contact cleaner on several harness connector points at computer and injector/ignition contact points in engine compartment (incl. ignitor).

[LarryIII]

Jim,

Just a hunch.

First check the engine temp sensor again.
Then check the contacts and the wire. Wiggle that wire and see if you get an intermittant short.

After that, I'm stumped.

PS: I just reread your post. Have you ever checked out the voltage regulator and its wiring?

[James Scott]

It's still doing the "gutless at first" thing and a slight to moderate rough idle (BUT no high speed shudder like before, Thank GOD!). The gutless thing is the biggest bother now, since sometimes right after starting up you need to accelerate - - But my car won't (for about 1 to 2 minutes!)

Haven't been able to put time lately into checking a specific system out to solve this, but it's working better than last November! BTW, it's starting at times again to run rough so that the idle is very rough (lopes at idle, shakes car) for a brief period after startup (after long stop -- a few hours at least).

THANKS for your help guys! (aren't there any girls?)

[svx_commuter]

Have you tried torqueing the intake manifold bolts? Vacuum leak? You could hook up a vac gauge and run it inside the cabin for awhile.

[James Scott]

I think the manifold bolts are tight - I remember checking them before, after someone (probably you) mentioned it. The vacuum guage is something I could try, but don't know how that could be intermittent?

Today, a new bit of information >> Upon morning startup, the rough idle developed - this time, like I mentioned was starting to happen again, the idle was very rough when I stopped near my house to make a turn. I jumped out (like I did months ago) to check the engine. I started pulling injector wires, one at a time, to see if the same cylinder (always same one before!) would not show any change when I pulled its injector harness off injector:

THIS TIME A NEW CYLINDER WAS THE ONLY ONE TO SHOW NO CHANGE! (PASSENGER MIDDLE)

What could that mean y'all??? Remember, I replaced both the injector and the coil pack at the other (previous no change to rough idle site - DRIVER REAR) to no avail.

HELP!!! Thanks for all your help!

[svx_commuter]

Maybe you are getting dirt, rust or something else in the fuel lines to the injectors and that is hanging the injector open. New fuel filter? Blow out the manifold line, check fuel pressure.

I remember about the tightening of the manifold now. I think it was Beav that recommeded that. I was the one talking about all the bolts involved. It could be intermittent as the metal is warming up to operating temperature. Diffferent expansion rates between the manifold and heads. If you found some the bolts loose, the gasket could be shot.