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  #16  
Old 01-17-2003, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by mattski
I believe that the plugs should be taken out of a cold engine.

Matt

ABSOLUTELY! Make sure your engine is dead to the bone, graveyard cold. Thanks for reminding me. I had added that notation to the How-to that I updated, and can't find.

PS: I've edited the above how-to to include this notation, in case someone does a search on this post. Thanks again Matt.
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Last edited by Aredubjay; 01-17-2003 at 11:00 AM.
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  #17  
Old 01-17-2003, 11:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Aredubjay
Again, be careful of boots, wiring, etc. Oh, and also, DO NOT put never seize on the plugs. It's a big no-no, both from Subaru and from NGK. The temperature of our engines makes the compound too hard. Pieces could possibly fall into the plug holes and into the cylinders – not good.
I'd like a second opinion on this...ahem, <cough>BEAV<cough>.

I put anti-seize on my plugs, per the Chilton manual's recommendation. If this was really bad, I'd like to know about it. Although, I think I was pretty careful to not put the stuff far enough down the threads to get into the combustion chambers. Tough to say - wiggling the friggin' things into their homes was a pain in the ass, so I might have gotten dirt, oil, fingernails, cats, who knows what else in there...
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  #18  
Old 01-17-2003, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Pockets


I'd like a second opinion on this...ahem, <cough>BEAV<cough>.

I put anti-seize on my plugs, per the Chilton manual's recommendation. If this was really bad, I'd like to know about it. Although, I think I was pretty careful to not put the stuff far enough down the threads to get into the combustion chambers. Tough to say - wiggling the friggin' things into their homes was a pain in the ass, so I might have gotten dirt, oil, fingernails, cats, who knows what else in there...
The anti-seize recommendation was made by Danny (Bosco999) on the Yahoo board (Subaru Senior Master Tech). It was based on his experience moreso than anything else. I have forgotten the details of the message he sent me on the subject (and have lost the e-mail he sent me regarding this), but, my recommendation in the how-to is somewhat oversimplified. I just know that he convinced me (a long time anti-sieze proponent and user) NOT to do it. So I don't. However, if you feel good about using it, go ahead.
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  #19  
Old 01-17-2003, 11:41 AM
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Tell me more about not using antiseize on the plugs, if you are careful???

I have always used it on all my plugs, especially with aluminum heads.

Thanks
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  #20  
Old 01-17-2003, 11:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by gschabel
Tell me more about not using antiseize on the plugs, if you are careful???

I have always used it on all my plugs, especially with aluminum heads.

Thanks
So had I . . . until the SVX. I'll see if there's any information in the Yahoo archives. I think, however, Danny sent it to me in a personal e-mail, which I had saved, but later lost, in a computer change.

We'll see.
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  #21  
Old 01-17-2003, 12:07 PM
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Ah, found it. Posted 6/17/00 on the Yahoo board.


Sorry for the long story but I'm trying to save y'all some frustration. Concerning lubricants and anti-seizing compounds being applied to sparkplug threads.... If you go to NGK's website, somewhere in the FAQ's you will find their statement as to why they don't recommend anything on the threads. I don't recall it well enough to repeat it. Subaru does not recommend it because we have attributed misfire codes in the 2.5l motors, and had misfires in the 3.3l motor due to high resistance at the spark plug threads.
I don't currently endorse it, but at one time I did. When I started in this business 22 years ago (can that be possible?? I'm not that old!!!)The old guys that I worked with used neverseize to slather their spark plugs. Especially when aluminum headed motors became popular. I of course followed suit. Having been taught that not coating a steel spark plug in an aluminum head would mean the end of the free world. I religiously followed this procedure until 1990 when I went to work for my first Subaru dealer. Everyone in the subie shop followed the same notion. Except 1 guy who swore by atf on the threads. Anyway, as the turbo loyales got older we started having problems getting the spark plugs out. But we didn't see the same problem on the 1.8l mpfi xt. Even though it uses the same heads. Same plugs. Less heat, no turbo. Then I noticed that all these plugs that we had slathered in never-seize or atf had a brown sticky residue on the threads of the plugs ( on the turbo's, not the n.a.'s). I suspected that the compounds were "coking up". And contacted NGK. Eventually a rep from NGK showed up, Looked at my enormous collection of Spark plugs, some sticky, some not. He shook is head. And said," Do you have any idea how much money we spend in research every year?" I told him that I did not. "We roll the threads and apply a coating, there is no further attention needed. Quit putting never-seize on and your troubles will be over." I was skeptical but tried it. Over the next few years I was the only one in the shop not using a coating, and I was the only one in the shop that was not repairing spark plug holes or replacing cylinder heads on cars that I had previously tuned. Then the svx came out. We had some misfire problems after the first plug changes, not common, but it would happen. Subaru tracked the problem down to never-seize in most cases. On a side note, about half the old timers in my shop still wont buy it and believe they need to slather those plugs. And they do a lot of thread repair because of it. You can lead a horse to water......
danny
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  #22  
Old 01-17-2003, 12:37 PM
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Thanks for finding that and posting it, Randy. Maybe while I have my car disassembled this Spring, I'll pull the plugs and wipe off the anti-seize. I wonder how I can clean it off the heads, now, though...or if I have to...
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  #23  
Old 01-17-2003, 12:41 PM
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Ok, I got the point, but..........

I would feel sooo much better putting SOMETHING on those threads. I don't buy 100% the threads are pre-coated.

Does that go for Bosch too? etc......

Any ideas of any other compounds that would be appropriate?

Has anyone had experience here with or with out it?

Broken any plugs or stripped heads?

Thanks!
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  #24  
Old 01-17-2003, 12:49 PM
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That's only because they have to do it on a hot or very warm engine. If your engine is cold, it takes no time at all, save the removal time of the battery and airbox. As long as there are no problems with the coil pack or boots, the plugs are a cinch to get in and out and you don't have to jack up the car at all or use the holes in the fender. All that's needed is the spark plug socket, a short 3" extension, and a standard 3/8" ratchet. With the extension on the socket, the end is just about flush with the valve covers so you simply stick the ratchet on and break the plug loose. Then you remove the ratchet and unscrew by hand unless the threads are caked by anti-sieze, in which case, you'll have a harder time.

KuoH

Quote:
Originally posted by Dick Young
Randy and Mr. Pockets, thanks for the help. I can see why dealers charge $300 for a plug replacement.
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  #25  
Old 01-17-2003, 12:51 PM
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I've got Bosch Platinum +4's with bare threads. Easy in easy out, but they don't fall out.

KuoH

Quote:
Originally posted by gschabel
I would feel sooo much better putting SOMETHING on those threads. I don't buy 100% the threads are pre-coated.

Does that go for Bosch too? etc......
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  #26  
Old 01-17-2003, 01:17 PM
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Footnote: I bought my car with 109K on it. The plugs I changed were the original NGK's. They did not have anti-sieze on them and they were easy to remove.

gschabel,
I know it'll be hard, but resist the urge. It was tough for me, also. Especially having the tool box sitting right there beside me with the tube of anti-seize staring me in the face as I changed my plugs, but, you can do it.
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  #27  
Old 01-17-2003, 01:26 PM
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I will have to pre-medicate or sedate myself for this one!!

Perhaps a coach watching too!!!

Thanks!
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  #28  
Old 01-17-2003, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Aredubjay
Footnote: I bought my car with 109K on it. The plugs I changed were the original NGK's. They did not have anti-sieze on them and they were easy to remove.

gschabel,
I know it'll be hard, but resist the urge. It was tough for me, also. Especially having the tool box sitting right there beside me with the tube of anti-seize staring me in the face as I changed my plugs, but, you can do it.
After 130k miles, my plugs were all easy to get out, once I had the boots off. It was those boots that were the real problem.

I can't remember whether or not the originals were coated with anything.
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  #29  
Old 01-17-2003, 05:26 PM
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When we changed my plugs we used a small amount of neverseize and also quite high on the threads away from the combustion chamber.

I also noticed there are at least 2 types of the stuff. There's a copper as well as an aluminum based version. I used the aluminum version.
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  #30  
Old 01-17-2003, 07:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Earthworm
When we changed my plugs we used a small amount of neverseize and also quite high on the threads away from the combustion chamber.

I also noticed there are at least 2 types of the stuff. There's a copper as well as an aluminum based version. I used the aluminum version.
I was reading some stuff today on the product. There is also a non-metallic version. Can't remember the name or mfg'er but will post if I come across it again, for those "die hard, gotta use anti-seize" folks.
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