R-12 or R-134?

canbritsvx · #1 08-17-2009, 06:48 AM

I have a 92 LsL with warm ac, i plan to add gas to see if fixes , and make the ac ice cold. 1992 seemed to be a year when they switched from r-12 gas to r-134, i cannot find any idication of which gas i have, is there an easy tell sign?
Thanks
Clive

ZMan · #2 08-17-2009, 07:29 AM

Easy. - R12 is a screw on fitting and R134 is a quick connect.

SuberNatural · #3 08-17-2009, 08:27 AM

r12 is super expensive and very hard to find. Just but the fittings and convert over to 134a. You should also have it evacuated and recharged

NiftySVX · #4 08-17-2009, 08:28 AM

They switched in 1993. All 92s have 12 unless they've been retro-hacked

canbritsvx · #5 08-17-2009, 12:55 PM

Thanks all.

NiftySVX · #6 08-17-2009, 05:08 PM

I say this over and over on here.

R-12 is neither expensive or hard to find. It is slightly less than twice the price of 134a and is readily available to those who are licensed to deal with it. At my shop we have both and 134a is 16/lb and r-12 is a bit under 30. Retrofitting is not a correct repair, as the compressor, evaporator, condensor, expansion valve, lines, o rings, control unit, and evaporator are different in the two systems (that's the long way of saying every part is different). The oil carried by 134a is not compatible and mixes with the old oil in the system and turns to a sludgy, acidic mess that attacks rubber seals and lines.

Option 1 $80
Retrofit kits are usually 49.95, so 49.95 + 30 for refrigerant is about $80. This is how much it will cost you to put the wrong refrigerant in your car that carries a oil that destroys o rings and hoses for cfc 12 and eats the dessicant dryer as well. This is the option chosen by those who don't know any better or customers of shops that choose not to certify themselves.

Option 2 $60

Charge with 2 lbs R 12
2 lbs of r-12= a bit under $60

Option 3: many thousands of dollars

Properly convert the system by replacing the components listed.

I pick the cheapest option, which also is the correct way to repair the car.

stiguy · #7 08-17-2009, 07:19 PM

where in the world do you get your r-12 from here its $90 a pound!!!!

1986nate · #8 08-17-2009, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stiguy

where in the world do you get your r-12 from here its $90 a pound!!!!

Here as well

NiftySVX · #9 08-17-2009, 10:04 PM

I am more curious as to where you are getting yours? I get mine from the dealership I work at, where we keep a 12 pound container. And I know it is still readily available as I used the last of this container last month on a customer's vehicle and another was there to replace it the next day. As I said, you can not just walk into an auto parts store and buy it as you have to be certified to handle it as it was decided by the original patent holder that it is harmful to the environment shortly after the patent expired. (good thing they came up with 134a, which is supposedly better).

Your state may tax it more heavily? Or the shop you are using is price gouging?

1986nate · #10 08-17-2009, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NiftySVX

I am more curious as to where you are getting yours? I get mine from the dealership I work at, where we keep a 12 pound container. And I know it is still readily available as I used the last of this container last month on a customer's vehicle and another was there to replace it the next day. As I said, you can not just walk into an auto parts store and buy it as you have to be certified to handle it as it was decided by the original patent holder that it is harmful to the environment shortly after the patent expired. (good thing they came up with 134a, which is supposedly better).

Your state may tax it more heavily? Or the shop you are using is price gouging?

That is the wholesail price that my friends dad gets it at. He was a certified master tech for over 25 years before opening up his shop he currently has and is fully certified/insured to work on a/c components and handle freon. It is very possible that the taxes/prices are higher here in WI.

And 134a isn't better for cooling, only better for the environment as the molecules are larger and can't leak out of the seals or even the hoses anywhere near as easily. R12 worked so well that a lot of times in most vehicles, frost would from on the outside of the lines due to it being able to get so cold.

NiftySVX · #11 08-18-2009, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1986nate

That is the wholesail price that my friends dad gets it at. He was a certified master tech for over 25 years before opening up his shop he currently has and is fully certified/insured to work on a/c components and handle freon. It is very possible that the taxes/prices are higher here in WI.

And 134a isn't better for cooling, only better for the environment as the molecules are larger and can't leak out of the seals or even the hoses anywhere near as easily. R12 worked so well that a lot of times in most vehicles, frost would from on the outside of the lines due to it being able to get so cold.

R-12 is the superior refrigerant, it is able to work more efficently at lower pressures, which is the main reason retrofitting won't make the car blow as cold as it should, but the SVX air conditioning system is very powerful because of all the glass on the car so most don't notice. I guess it doesn't matter anymore because the 134a will take a few years to destroy the system (usually) and the value of the 92 models is such that it is no longer common to repair them correctly and return them to original factory condition, and most of those who own them now are not willing to spend the money required as they probably paid no more than a couple thousand for the car. This was not the case ten years ago when the cars were still worth 10-20k. Plus they are at end of service life anyway. I just like to try and let people know that this is not a proper repair. The SVX will last a long time if it is maintained properly.

svxcess · #12 08-18-2009, 09:34 AM

Freeze-12 is the recommended replacement for R-12 refrigerant. Far cheaper than R-12 and EPA certified. Compatible with R-12 and needs no lubricant changes. Click HERE

http://www.freeze12.com/miva/merchan..._Code=freeze12

Also available on EBAY

,

NiftySVX · #13 08-18-2009, 10:43 AM

Yep, that's good stuff. Used it for many years. Direct replacement for R-12. For some reason it's existance escaped me until now. I put actual cfc 12 in my old 92 but I just found out this morning that we now use this product instead, having used the remainder of the R-12 that the warehouse for the group of dealerships I work for. We used to use it years ago at the other dealership I worked at.

genzzel · #14 08-18-2009, 11:00 AM

Ok sounds great! Thank you for this. Now for those of us that were stupid enough to change to 134--how would you change back??? My son has 92 that was converted and acts like dryer is plugged. I have new dryer---would I have to do anything else to change back to freeze 12???? Thanks -- kevin

SomethingElse · #15 08-18-2009, 11:09 AM

Subaru also made a kit that comes with everything you need including, hoses,label, receiver drier, and some other misc. stuff to do the conversion correctly. I dont recall the part number though.