285 whp!

[Johnybeas]

I love how all you guys are tryin this **** before I throw down my money in it, lol I'm waitin till it's all set up and people know what they're doin and after bobby and tom try the turbo set up and get that worked out then I'll throw down the cash, build my motor, turbo it, and have uber power I love reading advancements like this, it makes me really excited! hehehe right now I'll just enjoy my 5spd

[sicksubie]

Your welcome for being the guinea pigs..

[Trevor]

Quite a long time ago, within threads on cams, I made the point that as the SVX is already a highly developed road car, the modified mild cams being discussed, were unlikely to be cost effective, when stacked up against the increased performance which could be anticipated. Here we have evidence that all or nothing is the name of the money game.

[SVXRide]

Originally Posted by Trevor

Quite a long time ago, within threads on cams, I made the point that as the SVX is already a highly developed road car, the modified mild cams being discussed, were unlikely to be cost effective, when stacked up against the increased performance which could be anticipated. Here we have evidence that all or nothing is the name of the money game.

Trevor,
While the EG33/SVX combination is definitely an example of very thoughtful late 1980s engineering (much in the same way that the Space Shuttle was an example of early 1970s engineering when it was first launched in 1981), it does, as all cars under ~$100k/copy do, reflect multiple compromises. The good thing is that the compromises did result in a very stout engine that, left alone, is good for 300k miles with a graceful degradation in hp over those miles. The bad thing is that the compromises resulted in an engine/chassis combination that really had no true performance path that owners could follow (which Subaru eventually recognized with SPT parts for the WRX and STi models).
So, what we now have is a small band of die hard SVX owners that are willing (and able) to use their own time and skills to push the EG33's envelope beyond what the Subaru engineers felt comfortable doing (given the management-imposed "compromises"). What have we confirmed to date? Well, as good as the stock air intake and exhaust systems are, there are some gains (5-10 hp) to be made with with well-engineered alternate systems that are well within the budgets of most SVX owners (I'll point to the true ram air system I developed and implemented - with documented pressure readings post installation and OT's "evolution" of exhaust systems). We've also found that the EG33 does respond to ECU tuning (10 - ? hp) via LAN's breakthrough work cracking the ECU's code and creating chips we could all take advantage of (again, relatively reasonable prices) and actually get many of us to start thinking seriously about standalone systems (Hydra, Megasquirt, etc.). We've also found that the EG33 does respond to forced induction (okay, we're talking serious money here), which has also pointed to weaknesses not previously experienced in normally aspirated operations (ring lands!). And now we're seeing that the EG33 does respond positively to well engineered camshaft and cylinder head porting alterations (not really all that surprising, just took a while to get here). Moving the EG33 from 230hp at the crank to somewhere in the neighborhood of 350 hp at the crank is by no means insignificant or inexpensive given the limited market (hard to get any established cam company interested in investing the R&D $ in something with a total market less than a week's production of Honda Civics).
Personally, I believe we're rapidly approaching the day when we'll have a well designed, comprehensive package of ram intake, cams, head, and exhaust (true tuned exhaust manifolds + matched exhaust system) mods coupled with purpose-burned ECU chips that will provide a very dependable and "streetable" normally aspirated 300 crank hp. Cost? Probably around $2k. I do believe that the next year is going to be eye-opening on the performance front across both normally aspirated and forced induction fronts
-Bill

[sicksubie]

Here, here...

[Trevor]

Originally Posted by SVXRide

Trevor,
Cost? Probably around $2k. I do believe that the next year is going to be eye-opening on the performance front across both normally aspirated and forced induction fronts
-Bill

Thanks Bill, but be sure I have been following all that has been going on and am aware of the technicalities involved, as well as the status quo. I am simply recording an opinion for what it is worth. I fully understand and appreciate the entheusiasm and ambitions of those experimenting.

Yes the SVX is a compromise, but not to a degree allowing for improvement to the extent which easily makes modifications cost affective in the real world. Those securing personal satisfaction from hobby work, are not aligned with commercially oriented costs as will be assessed by others .

If a set up can be developed which will provide an adequate power gain as compared to price, this will be a wonderful achievement worthy of applause. I would say into a shop and out finished for $3k, and resulting in a standing quarter of 13.5 sec. quarter, could render things viable, but only to the real enthusiast. Expert opinion here from the market would comprise a valuable yard stick.

[RallyBob]

I'd like to take this time to introduce myself briefly. My name is Bob Legere, you perhaps know me better as 'Bob the fabricator' (long story, but it's an inside joke) on Nasioc.

My interest in the EG33 is simply one of curiosity. I like making relatively obscure stuff fast. I originally suggested the installation of the EG33 into Jack's 2.5RS base on the fact he had access to an SVX with a blown tranny for $500. It's a fantastic engine, particularly from an acoustic point of view...in other words, it sounds great. And I suspect there's a lot of hidden potential still in there, power-wise.

I have plans for use of an EG33 in a race-only car some time down the road myself, but that's years away. The goal is a 2:1 power-to weight ratio in a closed-body tubular chassis race car. I think it's entirely feasible.

Originally Posted by Hocrest

mmmmm... 300whp in a 2800 car.....

At the end of this month (Feb 27th-29th), you can see Jack's '3.3RS' at Virginia International Raceway at a NASA event. It'll be a shake-down for the new engine mods, so we'll see how things do from a reliability point of view. Once nice thing about racing....three days of competition provide about a year's worth of normal road abuse. So we'll see how 285 whp and 2748 lbs of Impreza do on the track. He also has new springs and dampers, so I expect the lap times to drop drastically from previous visits to VIR.

Bob

[sicksubie]

Input on possible variations of the cams in that motor that could be used for a more streetable purpose?

[redlinedeath]

*drool* id better sell my guitar!

[RallyBob]

Originally Posted by sicksubie

Input on possible variations of the cams in that motor that could be used for a more streetable purpose?

I have access to a spare EG33 engine, so I could measure for the maximum safe lift with the hydraulic buckets, and the max valve lift and base circle that would not entail grinding the bucket sleeves for clearance.

Bob

[Johnybeas]

this is exciting!

[TomsSVX]

Bob, thanks for coming over, its good to have a tech head around, but be warned, you will be blasted with questions about that engine with all the power you are putting down. That being said... i wish you luck and more importantly... Welcome!!

Tom

[sicksubie]

I have a spare motor here too if you want it for anything let me know...

[Trevor]

Originally Posted by sicksubie

I have a spare motor here too if you want it for anything let me know...

IMHO someone must set up a static engine and brake, so as to carry out proper before and after testing as changes are made. Wheel dynos are to remote from the project and conditions vary from one day to the next.

The problem is to jerry up some form of brake, i.e. a machine which can absorb power. A fire pump motor is an option, pumping against a jet. A lot of heat will have to be dissipated but a large tank could suffice. It is the sort of set up which requires a rural sort of site, with a shed and plenty of outside space. Shade tree stuff.

The principle is that the pump/brake is mounted so as to be able to rotate freely against a weighted lever. Lever length and weight, provide a means of balancing the load and exactly measuring torque in lbs ft. Obviously HP can be computed with a figure for RPM.

Best of all and the real oil, is a dynamo or alternator capable of handling the power on hand, together with a resistance bank. Anybody on the net in the junk machinery business? Has anyone come across a home built set up which could be copied?

[shotgunslade]

Rallybob:

Does Jack intend to be at any upcoming NASA-NE Lime Rock, Pocono, Watkins Glen or NASA-MA Summit Point events? AS I said in a preious post, I rode in his car at Watkins Glen before hte engine work and would love to take another ride in it.