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  #16  
Old 10-16-2005, 07:03 PM
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Manarius Manarius is offline
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30 amps!? Gotta be careful around that kind of amperage...that's death in a cable...
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-Jason
(8/23/07-Present) 1995 Subaru SVX LSi (197k) Polo Green (#1102) 03/95
Mods: DDM Tuning 4500k 35w Low Beam HID, 100w H3 Bulbs, Extra Ground Cables, 15 minute $12.96 mod,
svxfiles designed transmission mount (), sporting a "new" tail light bar,
silver BBS rims, custom power steering cooler (one that doesn't dump ATF constantly), new negative lead cable, no more third or fourth gear
(1977-Present) 1977 Chevrolet Corvette (81k) Silver
(12/01/2011-Present) 2005 Subaru Outback 2.5i Limited 5MT (97k)
I have a bad feeling about this.
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  #17  
Old 10-16-2005, 07:04 PM
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TomsSVX TomsSVX is offline
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damn, didn't have to make me look like a redneck with a hammer Harvey

Tom
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  #18  
Old 10-16-2005, 08:12 PM
kuoh kuoh is offline
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I've not had a single failed crank since replacing the ignition switch. The symptoms were very much like what the others described, the first turn of the key in the morning or after several hours parked always worked fine. Restarting after short durations were hit and miss, with the accompanying "click" of the solenoid, but got progressively worse over the years until finally even the morning starts were intermittent. Now I don't have to look like an idiot trying to start my car at the gas station.

KuoH
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  #19  
Old 10-16-2005, 10:34 PM
Dennis ex24
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yeah this is the **** i deal with now.

the car died on me at an intersection near my house (another issue...stalling intermittently)...i had to push the thing across the street in the a parking lot and turn the key 20 times.

how much are the ignition switches for this thing?
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  #20  
Old 10-17-2005, 05:37 AM
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dannmarr dannmarr is offline
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I agree with Kouh. I first tried the quick fix with the relay, but it had it's drawbacks. So I decieded to replace the ignition switch. I just installed the switch on Saturday. So far it seems to solve the problem. The original one wasn't even mounted to the steering column, the bolts were off. Good thing, because they are hell to remove and replace! Kouh has some nice photos and directions on this subject, just do some searching on this forum. The cost is about 38 dollars. Be carfull if you have an alarm or an auto start connected to your ignition switch. Good luck!

Last edited by dannmarr; 10-17-2005 at 05:42 AM.
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  #21  
Old 10-24-2005, 09:43 PM
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Sorry to say, the problem is still there. I had no problem for the first week, but now it's back again. I did use the same bolts to fasten the ignition switch and really wasn't able to tighten them as much as I wanted to. I'm going to buy the new bolts with the allen head. Hope this will do the trick.
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  #22  
Old 10-25-2005, 04:42 PM
oab_au oab_au is offline
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Starter solenoid relay.

Dannmarr, when you say the relay that was fitted "had some drawbacks".What was the problem with it.?

Harvey.
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  #23  
Old 10-25-2005, 06:34 PM
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I can't say for him, but when I tried the relay mod, the starter would engage whenever I turned on the cruise control while in park. I suspect that it would've done the same thing if I shifted into park or neutral with the CC on. It seems that the CC inhibitor relay grounds through the starter solenoid, and it passes just enough current to trigger the 9V relay I was using, so I didn't have a good feeling about the mod over the long term and decided to just fix the switch instead.

I'm guessing that the loose ignition bolts have something to do with Dannmarr's ongoing problems.

KuoH
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  #24  
Old 10-25-2005, 09:47 PM
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When I would put the car in neutral, the whole car would shake as if it was stalling. When I disconnected the relay, the problem was gone. So I decided to live with the original problem until I replaced the ignition switch. If you want to try the relay fix check out my thread with photos on "starter bypass relay install" maybe you can figure out another way to go around this problem.
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  #25  
Old 10-26-2005, 05:57 PM
oab_au oab_au is offline
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QUOTE kuoh I can't say for him, but when I tried the relay mod, the starter would engage whenever I turned on the cruise control while in park. I suspect that it would've done the same thing if I shifted into park or neutral with the CC on. It seems that the CC inhibitor relay grounds through the starter solenoid, and it passes just enough current to trigger the 9V relay I was using, so I didn't have a good feeling about the mod over the long term and decided to just fix the switch instead.

I'm guessing that the loose ignition bolts have something to do with Dannmarr's ongoing problems.

KuoH QUOTE.


Yes Kuoh, i see what you mean. I checked the wiring diag. and the Cruise Control does use the starter solenoid for an ground to turn off the Inhibitor relay when it is in N or P. Bummer .So thats happening is when the relay is fitted, it supplies the ground for the Indibitor relay, instead of the solenoid. If the relay winding resistance is high enough, it will operate when the Inhibitor relay pulls its ground through it.

The same effect will cause the idle problem that Dannmarr has, as the ECU sets its idle depending if the lever is in P,N or in gear. If the relay winding is too high in resistance it can fool the ECU.

I think the answer is to fit a relay with a winding that has a resistance low enough, so that the Cruise Control Indibitor relay's current, won't operate it. It would help to know the resistance of the relay that you and Dannmarr used, and if anybody else has fitted the relay and have not had this problem. What resistance theirs is.?

Harvey.
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  #26  
Old 10-26-2005, 06:14 PM
kuoh kuoh is offline
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The relay I used was this one. Looks to be 500 Ohms. I'm guessing the average 12V 30A automotive relay would be around 60-80 ohms, since they typically draw 150-200mA.

I wouldn't call that an answer though, maybe a work around until the problem gets bad enough that it wouldn't even trigger a 12V relay. I was measuring around 6-8 volts on the starter wire when my ignition switch was acting up, which was why I went with a 9V relay.

KuoH

Quote:
Originally Posted by oab_au
I think the answer is to fit a relay with a winding that has a resistance low enough, so that the Cruise Control Indibitor relay's current, won't operate it. It would help to know the resistance of the relay that you and Dannmarr used, and if anybody else has fitted the relay and have not had this problem. What resistance theirs is.?
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  #27  
Old 10-26-2005, 06:48 PM
oab_au oab_au is offline
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QUOTE=kuoh The relay I used was this one. Looks to be 500 Ohms. I'm guessing the average 12V 30A automotive relay would be around 60-80 ohms, since they typically draw 150-200mA.

I wouldn't call that an answer though, maybe a work around until the problem gets bad enough that it wouldn't even trigger a 12V relay. I was measuring around 6-8 volts on the starter wire when my ignition switch was acting up, which was why I went with a 9V relay.

KuoH QUOTE.

Gee a bit hard to please mate, I'd call it a Bloody good answer

The 500 ohms would be too high, it would only take a small current to turn it on. When you measured the voltage at the solenoid at 6-8 volts, it was the high current flow(20 to 30 amps) through the resistance at the key, that dropped it to a voltage, that was too low to operate the starter solenoid. If the key did not have to flow that much current, the voltage would not drop that low.

The way it is now is that the starter solenoid resistance is too low for the Cruise Indibitor relay to operate the starter, when the CC relay pulls its ground current through it. So we fit a relay that has a resistance that the CC won't operate it.

A relay with a winding resistance of about 85 ohms, may not have the problem.

Harvey.
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97 Liberty GX Auto sedan. 320,000Kls.
04 Liberty 30R Auto Premium. 92.000kls.
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  #28  
Old 10-26-2005, 06:58 PM
kuoh kuoh is offline
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Well I didn't mean say it was a "bad" answer, just not the best answer. But it will probably get most people by.

Yeah, I can be hard to please at times.

KuoH

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Gee a bit hard to please mate, I'd call it a Bloody good answer
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  #29  
Old 10-26-2005, 07:22 PM
oab_au oab_au is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kuoh
Well I didn't mean say it was a "bad" answer, just not the best answer. But it will probably get most people by.

Yeah, I can be hard to please at times.

KuoH
This is one of those little querks that they do to save a bit of wire,or another switch. They wanted to have the Cruise turn off when in N or P, so they just wired it to the starter at the shift lever switch. They did the same for the voltage for the Cruise lever on the wheel, instead of supplying a seperate feed, they get the power from the horn supply, but the paddle does not draw enough current to blow the horn, when it the paddle is operated.

Harvey.
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95 Lsi. Bordeaux Pearl, Aust. RHD.149,000Kls Subaru BBS wheels.
97 Liberty GX Auto sedan. 320,000Kls.
04 Liberty 30R Auto Premium. 92.000kls.
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  #30  
Old 10-26-2005, 08:27 PM
kuoh kuoh is offline
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It's human nature to look for shortcuts I guess. Y2K wouldn't have been such a big deal otherwise. Here's hoping for a quiet Y10K.

KuoH

Quote:
Originally Posted by oab_au
This is one of those little querks that they do to save a bit of wire,or another switch.
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