Drive so fast you'll lose your license... LITERALLY!!!!!!

Chicane · #1 12-22-2003, 06:54 PM

>ARGH<

Today I just got the lamest ****tiest ticket ever, and I'm probably going to lose my license because of it. Let's back pedal a bit. In march, I was late for work, and I was speeding to get there on time. I got pulled over, got a ticket. Fine. I was speeding, I deserved it (I'll ignore the fact that everyone else was going 10 over, and that I was going 14 over wasn't going to kill anybody and the real dangers on the road are people not using their signals and driving inattentively while yapping on cell phones). Whatever. 4 points, gone.....

What happens? Less than a week later, I'm on the beltline, and a black lincoln navigator is driving like a dumbass, not using her signals, and cutting people off. I hit the gas and do 15 over to catch up to her, hold up my "Please use your turn signals" sign, as my radar detector goes off and I realize there's a cop up ahead. No biggie. The Lincoln Navigator was driving like an idiot and going faster than me, so they'll get pulled over long before I would be, right?

WRONG.

A few miles later a different cop pulls me over, and sites me for going 25mph over the speed limit, even though I was going at most 15. I explained that maybe the black SUV was who they wanted, because it was also black, and hte cop who was doing the radaring probably meant him. Sure enough, the only description they had was "a black car doing 25 over". Well with that pathetic scrap of evidence and obvious misunderstanding, I go to traffic court where they basically say "**** off, we won't change anything, pay the ticket, we don't care what you have to say". So since I received a ticket for a fairly huge 25 over (which I was not doing), its a hefty 6 points off my license. I have two left, and have been driving extremely carefully ever since.

GREAT.

So today, I'm driving up in northern WI delivering some crowns to a dental office, and I'm in no hurry. I'm getting paid to drive, so I'm driving as docile as a lamb, taking my time, kicking back. On the way back, I have to drive through a little town called "Rosendale" WI. You know the type. It's basically just an intersection of 2 small highways, no stop signs in the whole town, just one traffic light, and one ****ty old gas station. Well, I go through the light, and start driving out of town. I have the music on, I'm in a good mood. My radar detector isn't even plugged in because I'm not in a hurry, and not speeding. I see a '55mph' speed limit sign up ahead, and begin accelerating. Then I see a cop in a driveway to my left. I instinctively go for the brakes, but I check my speed and realize I'm doing only 43mph. Judging by the road I'm driving on (Huge 2 lanes, barely any houses, but still residential) I assume that it's 35mph, just like those streets are in madison.) I quickly breath a sigh of relief as I realize there's no way he would pull me over for doing 7 over.

WRONG.

Cop pulls out. "Oh ****". I pull over, pull my license out, and keep my hands on the wheel with the window down. Cop comes up to me. Real pleasant fella. He clocked me at 43mph in a 30. ****. I apologize profusely, tell him I was just accelerating to the 55mph zone up ahead, and in no hurry, and that I've just finished delivering some teeth. No use. He gives me a $77 ticket and 4 points off my license. I'm currently at negative 2. I ask him if there's anyway he could go easy on me, being Xmas and all, and that I'll lose my license. "Not my problem" I then show him my turn signal sign, pointing out that the real danger is people who cannot drive, and don't pay attention while yapping on phones. He doesn't care. He just starts walking back to his car, at which point I tell him to have a merry christmas and that I hope he gets coal.

ACK.

SO now, I need to go to court. Which judging on allof my past experiences in court, will not do a god damn thing. This just pisses me off. I wasn't driving like an idiot, I wasn't endangering anyone, but because some buttcrack town has to generate revenue by pulling people over for STUPID **** like accelerating to 55mph when they see the sign, I lose my license.

Any advice?

- Ca$h

lee · #2 12-22-2003, 07:10 PM

Rob,

In some states you can plead "no contest" if you take the time to go to court. You still pay the fine, but the points may not be levied against you. Also, in Florida, if you go to traffic school they forgive one offense per year in points - even with a guilty plea.

If it's really lose your license time, I think it's also invest in a lawyer time.

rmjjensen · #3 12-22-2003, 07:18 PM

Man that sucks. My license isn't doing too hot either........and I only have 3 points!!!!!! But I really had 6 and went to the class which removed 3......so you'd figure I'm not that bad?

WRONG ....I'm considered a high risk driver and have only been driving for 3 years. So just recently I found out that my insurance company will no longer cover me as of March ...so I've gotta start searching for new insurance.

It's F***ing bulls*** how the littlest things really nail you .....and to top it off you see other people driving FAR worse than you, but instead they don't get nailed....you do! Driving laws are horse s*** .....they keep NO one in line AT all!!!!!!!

I was on the parkway today coming back from school and I swear, people were passing me when I was going 80 in a 55!!!!!!!!!!! 80!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AND THEY'RE STILL PASSING .....JESUS F***** CH**** ...some people

ugh .....anyway - Good luck!!!!!!!! I don't know how the laws are by you.

RSVX · #4 12-22-2003, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by rmjjensen
Man that sucks. My license isn't doing too hot either........and I only have 3 points!!!!!! But I really had 6 and went to the class which removed 3......so you'd figure I'm not that bad?

WRONG ....I'm considered a high risk driver and have only been driving for 3 years. So just recently I found out that my insurance company will no longer cover me as of March ...so I've gotta start searching for new insurance.

It's F***ing bulls*** how the littlest things really nail you .....and to top it off you see other people driving FAR worse than you, but instead they don't get nailed....you do! Driving laws are horse s*** .....they keep NO one in line AT all!!!!!!!

I was on the parkway today coming back from school and I swear, people were passing me when I was going 80 in a 55!!!!!!!!!!! 80!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AND THEY'RE STILL PASSING .....JESUS F***** CH**** ...some people

ugh .....anyway - Good luck!!!!!!!! I don't know how the laws are by you.

Perhaps if you werent doing 80 in a 55, you wouldnt have all of those points on your license in the first place...

And the "everyone else was doing it" arguement has NEVER worked...

P.S. Dont take that too personally, its just an observation.

Seraph · #5 12-22-2003, 07:33 PM

You people need to move to a state without points.

I hate those small town too. The thing is everytime I got nailed, I was over 20mph and there are times I even got away with them.

I once did 100 on I55. Trooper pulled me over. I told him I need to take a dump and he should escourt me if he does not want to arrest me for indecent exposure on the side of the road. He did. I went into the bathroom for a little bit. Came out. He was laughing his ass off. So did I and I handed him my licence. He told me to go easy.

And then there was an instant I was just about to speed up for the onramp and the cop clocks me doing 55 on 35 onramp. He came to my car. Wanted to write 2 tickets One for the Rear View LCD and one for going 55 on 35. I took the 55 over 35 and fought and lost (it's an freeking bloody onramp you bastards) I know you need to meet your bloody quota but I am trying to avoid accidents. I think the judge was stoned. For the RearView, I took out my litreature on what is legal and what is not legal according to US DOT (or was it NTSB). He let me off on that one.

Seraph · #6 12-22-2003, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by RSVX

And the "everyone else was doing it" arguement has NEVER worked...

That's true. That's why I have a scanner in the car. IL cops on I55 now hunts in groups of 5 to 8. One car would stop on top of a bridge with a laser (yes they are accurate) and the rest would wait for the whole group and pull them all over one after another.

Amazng ah?

That's why I am installing forward looking cam/rear looking cam, GPS tracking on my car so that I know exectly how fast I was going at any given time and prove it in court. I wait for the day for cop to tell me that his radar gun is much more accurate than 2 GPSes in my car.

lee · #7 12-22-2003, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Seraph

...snip.... I wait for the day for cop to tell me that his radar gun is much more accurate than 2 GPSes in my car.

understood, but since in traffic court we're guilty until proven innocent....and then since radar gun calibration is accepted by, I think, every state, you'd have to bring timing and satellite expert witnesses, certificates that your system was properly functioning and/or calibrated...

BTW, we're replacing cesium clocks with GPS for timing launch range activity at Cape Canaveral. Not quite as good, but a heck of a lot cheaper.

Seraph · #8 12-22-2003, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lee

understood, but since in traffic court we're guilty until proven innocent....and then since radar gun calibration is accepted by, I think, every state, you'd have to bring timing and satellite expert witnesses, certificates that your system was properly functioning and/or calibrated...

Do you think I can call DOD and secretary of Defence as well as the troops in the Iraq to testify on the accuracy of GPS and how it works?

KennEls · #9 12-23-2003, 03:10 AM

Down under, in Queensland, if you go to court to contest a ticket you can request a record of the gun/camera's calibration.

Little known but true.

They have a legal requirement to ensure the accuracy of the "weapon". The calibration test has to be recorded. Most times it is checked they don't keep the record or can't produce it in court and lose the case.

Of the thousands of tickets issued here very few are contested. costs a lot extra if you lose. There is always the chance that they've kept a record!!

Is there the same requirement the topside of the World?

Kenn

#10 12-23-2003, 06:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by lee

understood, but since in traffic court we're guilty until proven innocent....and then since radar gun calibration is accepted by, I think, every state, you'd have to bring timing and satellite expert witnesses, certificates that your system was properly functioning and/or calibrated...

BTW, we're replacing cesium clocks with GPS for timing launch range activity at Cape Canaveral. Not quite as good, but a heck of a lot cheaper.

Thats interseting. Isnt GPS accurate to like 10 to the -7, and Cesium 10 to the -9? Or am I thinking of Rebidium? I know we had Rebidium (in double ovens) in our TYC-39 vans in Germany but dont recall the accuracy.

Royal Tiger · #11 12-23-2003, 07:38 AM

Lwin, civilian GPS has a built it error level. Military GPS is much more accurate. The reason is so you can't buy a $100 GPS that is as accurate as the military's. Also radar has a small error level based on convergance zones. That's why in PA the state (only ones allowed to use radar - dumb law) CAN'T write for less then 6 over. Radar is most accurate head on with larger and larger levels of error based on the angles. We use TRACKER (white lines) and ESP (electronic device that uses infa red beams like at at drag strip). ESP is the MOST accurate speed device on the market, but requires multiple people to use. Not sure about laser.

Seraph · #12 12-23-2003, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by PA_SVX
Lwin, civilian GPS has a built it error level. Military GPS is much more accurate. The reason is so you can't buy a $100 GPS that is as accurate as the military's. Also radar has a small error level based on convergance zones. That's why in PA the state (only ones allowed to use radar - dumb law) CAN'T write for less then 6 over. Radar is most accurate head on with larger and larger levels of error based on the angles. We use TRACKER (white lines) and ESP (electronic device that uses infa red beams like at at drag strip). ESP is the MOST accurate speed device on the market, but requires multiple people to use. Not sure about laser.

I understand the error level on he civilian GPS. However, the error is to +/- 3 feet (ish) compare to radar which can give a good 20+ ft of deviance and you may need a larger object. Military version is accurate to inches. However, when you are travelling, they use the same equation to calculate speed. Delta D / Delta T. If you started off with so called inaccurate device, you are actually going to have data that will have slightly higher speed than device with more accuracy. Since time is the same, we have to account for that feet vs. inches issue. So compare to Radar, civilian GPS is still more accurate by a factor of 400% I am doing 20ft error / 5ft error here.

In IL, they used to use tracker (also in wisconsin) and sometimes, I can even hear a plane flying overhead reporting in speeders using such lines. Laser however, travels at light speed and is very difficult to operate. You have to point the gun at a reflective surface (most often number plate at the front) and the read outs are given at the same time. You can't beat the speeed of light here. It has an accuracy of around +/- 12 inches and that is damn good. I had been nailed before using laser and you should have seen the smile on the face of the cop. In chicago, they don't even write the ticket. They have pre stamped tickets and the cop just have to fill in the speed. It's amazing.

So the way I see it, as long as its radar, I am going to keep fighting the tickets (if I get any) and bring them up to higher courts if needed and change the laws. If it was laser or ESP, I'd take it like a man. Those things are accurate.

SHISVX · #13 12-23-2003, 08:14 AM

rob get on your best suit...throw out your attitude...tell the PROCECUTOR the God's honest truth...don't whine about prior tickets...don't call the cop a moron...tell him what happened

you can also ask for the certs of the radar/lazer/whatever gun that the cop used. if it hadn't been checked in a certain amount of time...it would be invalid, and so would the ticket. do a quick search on line. for a ticket to be valid, the officer would have to be using regularly serviced equipment. there are also other things you can check for, and since i just woke up, i can't think of them, nor do i really have time to check it out right now. but do a quick search, if you can find error...state it to the court NICELY AND RESPECTFULLY and that can be another way of getting out of it

go to court, check your options, and good luck

Kelli

Royal Tiger · #14 12-23-2003, 08:26 AM

Laser sounds good. There are rumors that when the state gets radar, we will get radar. This state is so 19th century!!!! Good attitude Lwin. I tell people ESP is accurate to .0001 so go ahead and fight it. I do however give ALOT of breaks. I got a kid for 66 in a 35 and after talking to his dad, let him plead to 45 in a 35 so he would only get 3 points. He was very appologetic. Very important. I reward those who accept that what they did was wrong and they were at fault. Those who accuse me of being wrong or not knowing what I'm doing don't get breaks. Hey I don't accuse you of not knowing your job on the side of the road.

Seraph · #15 12-23-2003, 09:01 AM

Most often, I give the cop the benefit of the doubt until he/she becomes a complete jerk. They do these(police related) things on day to day basis so they should know that area more than I do. I know computers. They ought to know the law. Fair enough right?

About three years ago, I was driving a rental SUV in Chicago and CPD has untold "if you cross yellow lights, we pull you over policy". I drove the speed limit of 35 and as I was about to hit the intersection, it turned yellow. I had 3 other guys in the car. That was my break. A cruiser stopped all traffic in the intersection, made a U turn and pull me over. I went into court with calculations on how I can not stop and if I did stop I'd be in the middle of the intersection and the judge let me off. I told the cop I could not stop on time. He did not listen.

Also I live in the intersection of 3 towns. Palatine, Arlington Heights, and Buffalo Grove. There is a understanding between the 3 local police agencies that they can cross over and pull people over and give out tickets (if the crime was committed in their town). I was in Arlington Heights portion of Arlington Height and Buffalo Grove corner and apparently to the cop, I did not stop for pads (who was on the other side of the 6 lane road). A Buffalo grove officer made a U turn and pulled me over.

I went to court. I told the cop that he was out of his jurisdiction. He went red and said he know the area and that he is in Buffalo Grove. I took out the map of Arlington Heights provided to me by Town Council's office. He went quiet. Judge dismiss the case. He looked like he wanted to beat me up.

If there is a legit ticket that I was wrong. I will take it. If they are wrong and if I can prove it, I am not going down quiet.

Lesson here Rob: if you were speeding, if you can fight it and win, fight it. Otherwise, strike a deal. If you fight it and loose, you will be in deeper pile of crap that you were before you went into the court room.