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  #31  
Old 10-22-2004, 12:19 PM
NiftySVX NiftySVX is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Earthworm
Hence why a standard transmission does not need additional cooling.

Thanks Harvey
ps. How's the weather?
A manual transmission is A COMPLETELY AND FUNDAMENTALLY DIFFERENT DEVICE THAN AN AUTO. THE GEARS DON'T EVEN WORK THE SAME WAY!!!

NiftySVX
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  #32  
Old 10-22-2004, 12:42 PM
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Re: If you say so

Quote:
Originally posted by NiftySVX
The converter will lock up in 2,3,or 4.

...

NiftySVX
It was always very easy to for me to tell when the TC had locked, and I know it only happened in 4th and no other gear on my '95. If you've looked at the flowpower diagram and the TCM for the SVX 4EAT, do you know the specific operating conditions that will allow the TC to lock in 2nd or 3rd?
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  #33  
Old 10-22-2004, 04:45 PM
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Converter Lockup

Quote:
Originally posted by lee


i can, it happens in mine anyway.
Wow. The post that I read must have been before anyone really put an ATF temp gauge in their car... Because I swear that I read somewhere here on this board that the TC lockup process creates more heat than when unlocked.

Sorry guys!
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  #34  
Old 10-22-2004, 04:52 PM
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Re: If you say so

Quote:
Originally posted by NiftySVX
The converter will lock up in 2,3,or 4.

How many transmission classes have you attended?

Are you an ASE Certified automobile technician?

I am. I do this for a living. Plus I know hot to read a a/t powerflow and electrical diagram...
Lose the pride. It won't get you very far on this board. No one here appreciates being down-talked.

As with Mychailo's car (when he had the 4EAT), my TC will never lock in any other gear than 4th. And it is very obvious when it locks up.

Can you enlighten us on the conditions of a 2nd or 3rd gear lockup? I'd like to reproduce them (if possible), to see if the TC really will lock in 2nd or 3rd.

BTW - The TC in my car locked up in 4th gear at about 40mph the other day... It really caught my attention, since it just felt so weird to be going that slow and then experience a huge RPM drop.
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  #35  
Old 10-22-2004, 07:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by NiftySVX


A manual transmission is A COMPLETELY AND FUNDAMENTALLY DIFFERENT DEVICE THAN AN AUTO. THE GEARS DON'T EVEN WORK THE SAME WAY!!!

NiftySVX
Please keep your tone down. I am well aware of how transmissions work.

This is a polite forum and people who abuse it may and have been banned.
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  #36  
Old 10-23-2004, 04:29 AM
oab_au oab_au is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by NiftySVX


A manual transmission is A COMPLETELY AND FUNDAMENTALLY DIFFERENT DEVICE THAN AN AUTO. THE GEARS DON'T EVEN WORK THE SAME WAY!!!

NiftySVX
Giday Nifty, you meam that don't convert the elements of power, into different ratios?. They don't deliver foward and reverse motion?

I've been mislead and disillusioned all this time.

I'm amazed...

Welcome to the forum.

Harvey.
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  #37  
Old 10-23-2004, 11:37 AM
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  #38  
Old 10-23-2004, 04:10 PM
NiftySVX NiftySVX is offline
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TC lockup

Sorry People

You are certainly entitled to your own opinion.
Let me explain.

A torque converter contains no gears. it works by slinging fluid between the impeller and turbine. The fluid is trown by the turbine from its fins at the impeller whose fins are angled the opposite way. This is what moves the car. Thats right, the fluid is what turns the transmission. The converter can "slip" (the turbine and propeller turn at different speeds) to allow more torque to be developed by the engine. This is why there is SOMETIMES a rpm drop when converter locks up. The converter also contains a clutch. when the TCU sends a signal to the lockup solenoid, it opens and allows pressurized fluid to push the clutch aginst the housing. This allows a 1:1 ratio, taking the converter out of the picture. It just sits there and spins like a drum.

1. A locked converter will not create additional heat because when it is locked it just acts like it was welded together, there is no speed difference between impeller and turbine. I also have a tranny temp gauge, and if you are observing a temp increase it is likely because of the high clutch drum. (this is what goes out when you loose overdrive) The high clutch drum was one of the first modifications. It is only used in 4th gear(overdrive).

2. large amounts of heat are created whenever there is slipping going on in the transmission, such as when shifting, or when the multi-plate clutch (awd) is operating(when there is a difference in speed between the front diff and the rear tailshaft). Slippage must occur otherwise the tranny would just bang into gear and it wouldn't last long.

3. An automatic tranny uses planetary gearsets to obtain the different gear ratios, a planetary gearset is capable of different ratios by holding different parts of it stationary. This is difficult to explain, so I reccomend doing a search and reading someone else's explanation.

4. A manual transmission uses a dry clutch that works with springs and a friction material against a flywheel.

5. A manual transmission does not use planetary gearsets. It uses gears that are akin to the ones in a clock.

6. A manual tranny uses a heavy weight oil that has little additives in it.

7. An automatic transmission uses an oil that is 95% man-made additives (detergents, friction modifiers, and many, many more).
Only about 5% is actual oil.

8. I have to go eat dinner. Hope this helps you guys see what I was talking about. An automatic transmission is a fascinating device that was created by some smart people.

Enjoy,
NiftySVX
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Last edited by NiftySVX; 10-23-2004 at 05:12 PM.
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  #39  
Old 10-23-2004, 05:01 PM
NiftySVX NiftySVX is offline
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Straight from the horse's mouth

I am going out on a limb here, PLEASE do not reproduce/distribute these. FOR ILLUSTRATION PURPOSES ONLY.

I have some pages in my locker.
Hope they help

NiftySVX
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Last edited by NiftySVX; 10-23-2004 at 05:08 PM.
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  #40  
Old 10-23-2004, 06:48 PM
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Nifty,

I'm curious, could you provide a reference where you got the info that ATF was only around 5% oil?

Not to be too contentious, but some manuals do use a wet clutch (although this is mostly a motorcycle thing), and some manuals also use ATF for the lube vice 75W-90 (or whatever). And planetary gear sets have been used in manual shifting boxes as far back as the 1907 Model T - although I admit it's a rare bird since the advent of th 1928 Cadillac syncromesh box (so rare I'm not sure any planetaries are in manuals in production )
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  #41  
Old 10-23-2004, 07:01 PM
NiftySVX NiftySVX is offline
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Cool deal

Thanks for the info lee, I have never heard of a planetary in a manual! fascinating! How would that work? I knew a wet clutch had been used before on other things, but never heard of one on a car! I have learned in my time that just about everything you have ever thought of has been tried on a car, but I was speaking generally to try and help explain the major differences to someone who might not know. One of the main reasons I joined this thing was so that maybe I could help people.

I picked up the bit on the ATF at school (Toyota Technical training)
It was on a video put out by valvoline I think. The first thing they talk about in an auto tranny class is the fluid. Don't take those numbers to the bank but they are pretty close.

NiftySVX

P.S Honda even used regular motor oil in some of their manuals!
Wierd!
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  #42  
Old 10-23-2004, 07:11 PM
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I took a quick look at some MSDS for several ATFs and a typical number is around 70-80% oil base stock. I'm wondering if the video you saw was for a synthetic ATF - which might then use 5% or less traditional dino oil as a carrier for the additives - the other parts being made of either PAO or ester stocks (which is the synthetic equivalent of dino oil).
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  #43  
Old 10-23-2004, 07:29 PM
NiftySVX NiftySVX is offline
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ATF

I looked through my stuff and I couldn't find it but It seems like you know more about it than I do. I probably am thinking of a synthetic I dunno.

My cat's breath smells like cat food.
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