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  #16  
Old 10-03-2018, 02:43 AM
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Re: 3rd and 4th gear are not engaging + weird smell

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Originally Posted by Filip View Post
oab_au: thank you for confirming.

I have already talked with some carshops, so i have basic idea of overhaul cost...

The thing is, i have to use SVX anyway, say 50 Km a week. I drive very gently, not letting it much over 3500rpms - if i would not know car is 4 speed, i would not say its broken - so i hope it will be the solenoid...

svxcess: thank you very much for all informations you posted ! I really appreciate it !

Problem is , that i have called to 4 carshops, including Subaru and only AT oriented shop and none of them measuring line pressure ...

What is most funny is, that guy from last shop i called, told me, they do measuring line pressure, but do not have adapter for sizes of 90s Subarus socket...

So, its not ideal, but i am forced to simply buy that solenoid A, change it myself and see if it make differcence or not.

Is this correct part number of SOLENOID A : 16102AA020 ?

https://parts.subaru.com/p/Subaru__/...6102AA020.html

Only in short, where it is located and how hard it is to change it, is there DIY somewhere ?

Thank you very much guys and take care

Filip
Filip,

you must accept that repair shops are not interested in locating a problem when they can pursuade prospective customers to spend big money on a complete transmission rebuild and this fact has been the undoing of the SVX throughout its history.

Common sense dictates that the cause off a problem must be located before a repair is attempted. In this case it is logical to suspect a lack of line pressure, however this must be proven before proceeding with work which could be in the wrong direction thus waisting energy, time and importantly money.

The "A" solenoid can be replaced by dropping the transmission oil pane and removing the valve body, but although much simpler than removing the complete transmission, quite a lot of work is involved. Having done so you still can not be absolutely sure that you are going to fix your problem. Surely it makes sense to first locate what is causing the problem and. then proceed knowing what you are doing.

You can make up a pressure gauge in less time than it will take you to remove the oil pan, much. less the valve body. I will come back with when I locate instructions which I have previously written up.

I note that you are using the car, but carefully. I trust and presume that you are not getting any sort of smell, as this would indicate that clutches are slipping and can detect if any slip is occurring while you drive. Otherwise you will be wearing things out and a complete rebuild will become essential. :-(

Meantime do't panic. LOL
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Last edited by Trevor; 10-03-2018 at 03:03 AM. Reason: Paragraph added.
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  #17  
Old 10-03-2018, 03:40 AM
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Re: 3rd and 4th gear are not engaging + weird smell

------ Refer previous post.------

Filip,

Refer attachment regarding making up a pressure Gauge.

You mention a repair shop which has a gauge but no fitting for the SVX. This information should enable them to adapt something.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Presure Gauge.pdf (49.4 KB, 44 views)
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Last edited by Trevor; 10-03-2018 at 03:44 AM.
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  #18  
Old 10-04-2018, 12:32 AM
Filip Filip is offline
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Re: 3rd and 4th gear are not engaging + weird smell

Hello Trevor,

what you saying about repair shops is definitely interesting - idea that whole SVX "bad tranny" phenomenon, is in fact due to lack of informations on owners side and shops being too sly and fake on the other side, is something worth to think about...

Thank you for your attachment ! If i understand it correctly, you gave me instructions how to create pressure gauge. From brief look, it looks it won´t be as much complicated to build, as one would think.

Definitely better option, than buying prematurely solenoid. Thank you !


And yeah, so far i have been calm

Filip

Last edited by Filip; 10-04-2018 at 12:35 AM.
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  #19  
Old 10-07-2018, 04:05 AM
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Re: 3rd and 4th gear are not engaging + weird smell

Filip,

I have found some additional details illustrated in the workshop manuals which help yo find the pressure gauge connection port and also provides information covering the direct testing of clutch pressures. You will be able see how useful the pressure gauge will be in diagnosing your problem. Click/Go here and scroll though the complete data and in particular note illustration fig. 113 :-

http://www.ecutune.com/posts/4eatChecks.pdf

I hope this helps,

Cheers, Trevor.
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As a child, on cold mornings I gladly stood in cowpats to warm my bare feet, but I detest bull$hit!

Last edited by Trevor; 10-07-2018 at 04:15 AM. Reason: Checked hot address.
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  #20  
Old 10-08-2018, 12:08 PM
Filip Filip is offline
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Re: 3rd and 4th gear are not engaging + weird smell

Trevor,

this manual is absolutely perfect news, thank you ! I have been looking for something like this around whole internet, including here. Without success, until now.

As i mentioned in my first post, my english is not perfect, so just to be double sure, i rather ask you about attachment you posted last time

Apart from 40mm(2,5 inch)gauge with over-pressure tolerance of 160psi, i am supposed to buy just brass fittings and thin plastic tubing, in order to make working pressure gauge ? Am i right, if i assuming that, that brass fitting is supposed to be plugged into test plug location ?

Thank you,
Filip

Last edited by Filip; 10-08-2018 at 01:29 PM.
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  #21  
Old 10-08-2018, 06:53 PM
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Re: 3rd and 4th gear are not engaging + weird smell

Greetings Filip,

The short answer is YES --- and as I have said previously, your English is very good. By contrast I am a dim-whit as I have only one language! LOL

Please go back to my previous post dated 3 October and take some time studying the attachment which provides detailed instructions. Any type of pressure gauge will do, as long as it covers the pressure range required. It need not be the exact gauge I have suggested. You can use any sort of flexible tubing as long as it will take the pressure involved. Simply apply the common sense, which you obviously have.

The forum is providing you with some good practice in corresponding in English and congratulations, you are showing that you are at the top of the class and I hope I am providing you with some ongoing practice by not simplifying my words.

If you are not sure of anything, in any way, do not hesitate to ask, as I will be pleased and happy to provide further information.

Cheers, Trevor.
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As a child, on cold mornings I gladly stood in cowpats to warm my bare feet, but I detest bull$hit!

Last edited by Trevor; 10-08-2018 at 07:12 PM. Reason: Words added.
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  #22  
Old 10-16-2018, 12:56 AM
Filip Filip is offline
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Re: 3rd and 4th gear are not engaging + weird smell

Hello Trevor,

Thank you for not simplifying your words, that is actually a good idea for how to get some good practice here.

You speak only one language, but a language, which a huge part of people in the world understand. I would be bit more sceptical, if I would be speaking about my primary language

For last days, I have been studying documents you sent me and I noticed term "stall speed" . Does it mean, that I have go to some car shop with a test chamber, as I have to test pressures under all speeds and with variable rpms?

Or I ask oppositely, I can’t do this whole process on my friends courtyard, with a hole, where you can go under the car ?

Thank you

Filip

Last edited by svxcess; 10-21-2018 at 10:59 PM.
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  #23  
Old 10-16-2018, 04:01 AM
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Re: 3rd and 4th gear are not engaging + weird smell

.
Kia ora Filip,

I understand your problem and do not worry as you do not have to carry out all the complicated tests shown in the manual, or dig a hole.

Refer previous posts 13 & 14 and note that you only have to make sure that line pressure does not fall below the required and normal minimum pressure which is 44 PSI. Therefore, allowing some tolerance, be concerned if at any time the pressure falls below say 40 PSI.

As is mentioned in the manuals (post 13), arrange things so that you can see the gauge while driving the car. The connecting tube should be long enough to pass it up through a wiring opening and into the inside of the car. Then simply drive the car as you have been doing and when the engine is hot, as you drive, check the line pressure which should never fall below a minimum of 40 PSI. You must by now have a basic understanding of what is going on and the gauge will show you what is happening.

I gather that you have been driving the car in what must surely be limp mode, without any overheating or clutch slip, in which event you can be optimistic and hope that you may not have a drastic fault to deal with. The pressure will tell the story. Hang onto your lucky star. LOL

Now, to answer your question. —-

If the car is held so that it can not move, with the brakes hard on and for safety also chocked (blocked from moving) With the transmission engaged, the throttle is then opened and engine revolutions are increased so as to apply power. You will reach a point where the engine is “stalled” and can not go any faster. You have then reached the “stall point”.

In effect the torque convertor is also effectively stalled and is holding back and resisting all the available engine power and is in effect completely slipping rather than transmitting torque. The tests should be short so as not to cause wear or damage. A slipping clutch in the selected gear should become obvious. Unfortunately presumably you would not be able to test the suspect upper ratios. In any event don't worry yourself with this test.

Apply your foot gently and go easy on the struggling clutches. Hang in there and keep us posted on results.

Cheers, Trevor.
.
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As a child, on cold mornings I gladly stood in cowpats to warm my bare feet, but I detest bull$hit!

Last edited by svxcess; 10-23-2018 at 04:41 PM.
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  #24  
Old 10-21-2018, 01:06 PM
Filip Filip is offline
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Re: 3rd and 4th gear are not engaging + weird smell

.
Hello Trevor,

Oh, now I got it Thanks for clarification!

So I now have a gauge. I will try to mount it, probably tomorrow. I hope 1.5m is long enough for the connection tube.

When I will be underneath the car, what will I have to do in order to plug it into tranny and then get the tubing inside the interior?

You can be sure, that I will send you something, if Sol.“A” will really be broken!

This is a somewhat long race, I am always being one step behind, with short steps forward. Hopefully, this time, something won’t surprise me, in which case, these are my last questions before I will have some numbers to report.

Thank you,
Filip
.

Last edited by svxcess; 10-21-2018 at 01:21 PM.
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  #25  
Old 10-21-2018, 05:21 PM
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Re: 3rd and 4th gear are not engaging + weird smell

.
Kia ora, Filip,

At this stage I am not able to provide any more help and you are now on your own. LOL

Are you still driving the car and if you are, how is it going? Are you noticing any slip in the transmission, engine speeding up but road speed not increasing? I hope not, otherwise clutches will be wearing and the transmission could then require a complete rebuild no matter what you do.

As I have advised, treat it gently as it is already very old like me and needs some special care and your sympathy. However it should be grateful as you are giving it your very kind and best attention and this could make you lucky.

Cheers and the best of luck from down under,

Trevor.
.
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As a child, on cold mornings I gladly stood in cowpats to warm my bare feet, but I detest bull$hit!

Last edited by svxcess; 10-21-2018 at 10:55 PM.
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  #26  
Old 10-22-2018, 01:16 PM
Filip Filip is offline
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Re: 3rd and 4th gear are not engaging + weird smell

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Hello Trevor,

The measurements are done . In the end, it wasn’t as hard as I thought. Biggest problem being access (small space).

One question, is problematic. I did not plug the fitting into the exact same test port as shown in diagram, but to one I marked in the red circle. Common sense telling me, it should be same line, with the same pressure.




In this port I measured around 58 psi in REVERSE, at idle. I was able to measure maximum of 116 psi, in REVERSE, when on the gas.

What is more interesting is, that gauge wasn’t able to measure any values, when in 1, 2, 3 or D.


To your questions: I am not driving car anymore - since you recommended me this and before that, it was say around 100 -150 km in total, since this malfunction occurred.

Slippage only occurs when shifting from 1 to 2, otherwise not. Smell is there, when outside of car. I must be at exactly 3500rpm (and above), in order to shift into 2. I also have to depress gas pedal, otherwise, it would still rev and not shift - but this is not dogmatic, sometimes it shifts itself, without depressing the pedal.

I have permanently ECO mode ON. I try to be as gentle to car, as circumstances allow.

I will treat her as a baby, when tranny will be done.

Thank you,
Filip
.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Different port.jpg (77.1 KB, 28 views)

Last edited by svxcess; 11-06-2018 at 04:00 AM.
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  #27  
Old 10-22-2018, 07:25 PM
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Re: 3rd and 4th gear are not engaging + weird smell

Quote:
Originally Posted by Filip View Post
.
Hello Trevor,

The measurements are done . In the end, it wasn’t as hard as I thought. Biggest problem being access (small space).

One question, is problematic. I did not plug the fitting into the exact same test port as shown in diagram, but to one I marked in the red circle. Common sense telling me, it should be same line, with the same pressure.

Unfortunately you are measuring the line pressure at a point where it is delivered ONLY when reverse gear is selected and engaged. It is important to measure the line pressure at idle with NO gear engaged. You must use the correct port as is shown and specified below.


CORRECT TEST PORT




In this port I measured around 58 psi in REVERSE, at idle. I was able to measure maximum of 116 psi, in REVERSE, when on the gas.

What is more interesting is, that gauge wasn’t able to measure any values, when in 1, 2, 3 or D.

Exactly as would be expected. You must use the correct port. However the figures you have quoted are tending to indicate that the line pressure could probably be adequate and damage has already been done.



To your questions: I am not driving car anymore - since you recommended me this and before that, it was say around 100 -150 km in total, since this malfunction occurred.

Slippage only occurs when shifting from 1 to 2, otherwise not. Smell is there, when outside of car.

This is very bad news and shows that you are very probably continuing to create wear on friction surfaces.


I must be at exactly 3500rpm (and above), in order to shift to 2. I also have to depress gas pedal, otherwise it would still rev and not shift - but this is not dogmatic, sometimes it shifts itself, without depressing the pedal.

Unable to understand what you mean as nothing will happen unless the gas pedal is depressed and power is applied. Do you mean that unless you FULLY depress the gas pedal and apply FULL power?


I have permanently ECO mode ON. I try to be as gentle to car, as circumstances allow.

This could be confusing the issue by introducing something extra to be taken into account and considered. Please make all tests in normal mode with ECO off.


I will treat her as a baby, when tranny will be done.

Thank you,
Filip
.
Filip,

Please refer to my notes as included above. I am trying to overcome our language problem, but this is difficult when so many technical words must be used.

Cheers, Trevor.
.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 4EAT Test Plug.jpg (85.0 KB, 52 views)
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Last edited by svxcess; 11-06-2018 at 03:48 AM.
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  #28  
Old 10-27-2018, 04:15 AM
Filip Filip is offline
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Re: 3rd and 4th gear are not engaging + weird smell

.
Hello Trevor,

You are answering me faster than I am able to read. You are awesome! Thanks for this!

Depress: I must apologize for my mistake. I meant exactly the opposite of the word “depress” - which is release. So when I release the gas pedal, the shift change happens. Sorry for the confusion.

ECO Mode: For sure I tried to turn it off. What happened was, that instead of 3500rpm+ (shift point, while ECO ON), the shift point moved above 4000rpm. By shift point I mean the moment when the gear changes from 1 to 2.

I have not tested this more elaborately, as I wanted to be as gentle on the car as possible. I will turn it off, when I conduct correct testing.


Test Port: Ouch! that is unfortunate. I really thought that the pressure would be the same across those 2 ports.

I knew the correct port is the one which you marked. The reason I plugged it into the one that I did, is that I did not have right tools in order to get to the correct port. I must buy the right tools to get to correct port, especially distance-wise.


Smell: It was there ever since I bought the car. At first we thought it was from the freshly-painted exhaust system. Later it was clear that it was false assumption.

Considering, that I bought it sort of cheap (not the top price, neither the bottom one) I was expecting the tranny would sooner or later be subject of my focus. I only wasn’t expecting it would happen so soon...

Next week I will conduct testing in the correct port. We will see, how it turns out.

Have a nice weekend,
Filip
.

Last edited by svxcess; 10-28-2018 at 12:14 AM.
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  #29  
Old 10-28-2018, 03:31 AM
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Re: 3rd and 4th gear are not engaging + weird smell

Fillip, we are getting to know each other!

It is me that should be sorry. Damn it your English is very impressive and is helping us to press on regardless. The opposite of depress should in fact logically be unpress, but you have it right it is release.

(1) You must continue and properly check the line pressure. Once we have this first possibility answered we can logically move forward. One thing at a time.

(2) Very early on you advised. (In very good English) —- “When I tried self-diagnostics (power light) I got code 24, which is duty solenoid C.“

(3) You must now follow your nose. LOL However I am very serious. One thing for sure is that you have a stinker of a problem. (Lesson one in basic English.)

You now advise that you continue to notice the strange smell which you also mentioned earlier. —- “It's sort of burnt plastic smell. Could it have any relationship to tranny issue ?”

Yes, quite possibly. —- Burning hot solenoid C or wiring, = Smell, = Limp-mode. ?????

The fault code indicating solenoid valve C can only be detected electrically. Solenoid C could be electrically faulty and therefore be over heating and causing the smell. (Shorted turns within the solenoid windings.)

The wiring or plug connections to solenoid C could have a short circuit causing over-heating, burning and the smell. There is a lot of wring involved and in places where it could be damaged.

In regard to your problem, I have contacted an old forum member and friend, who has reverse engineered the TCU computer, asking what sensing is used to activate limp-mode, but he can not be exactly sure. Therefore it is very possible that an electrical fault within the solenoid C circuit could initiate limp mode.

No one within the forums has properly investigated your type of problem, so that you are proving to be a hero. Your patience and findings could prove of huge benefit.

Thanks, I did have a nice weekend and as it happens enjoyed it ahead of you.

Sincerely, Trevor.
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  #30  
Old 11-05-2018, 12:56 AM
Filip Filip is offline
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Re: 3rd and 4th gear are not engaging + weird smell

Hello Trevor,

Not bad, considering how far your country and mine are from each other :-)

So we measured the pressure and it was the same as last time. Numbers showed only in REVERSE, otherwise nothing. Switching ECO mode off, did not have any impact on the results.

The photo below shows the port we plugged it into. Is it correct one, or is it the one below, from that pair? We tried to plug it into both, but from the other one, when the thread was removed, the oil was leaking and not just a little, so we immediately tighten it a conduct measuring from the above one.




I would also like to pick up, that thecar is still the same, I definitely cannot say it is getting worse, the more I drive it. In terms of shifting and the smell, it is still the same. Smell is only outside the car.

I would even say, that the smell was now weaker than last time. Maybe because in my country now the weather is now getting colder

Thank you

Filip
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Last edited by svxcess; 11-06-2018 at 03:44 AM.
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