New (old?) Idea.

[BRZCory]

Ok, so I'm still split between a turbocharger and a supercharger for my EG33 swapped wagon.

Supercharger is the current king of cheap though, so that's kinda where my focus has currently been. But the problem with just mounting it inside the intake has always been the lack of intercooling, and excessively high intake temps.

soo....



WRX-ish TMIC (probably one of teh bigger ebay ones). Enlarge the "inlets" (now outlets) and run them to individual intake plenums, with runners that attach to the stock velocity stacks/injector jobbers.

Basically, mount the intercooler facing the normal direction, but flow the air in reverse.

My other idea was to do a panel filter on the non-supercharger side of the top of the motor ala:



So that you could have a 2nd hoodscoop for the filter, and it would make throttle body routing and compressor bypass a bit easier to route.

I should also mention I work in a CNC machine shop, so actually making brackets and plenums is relatively cheap (though time-consuming) for me.

Also I have questions and ideas about the plenum volume, runner length, etc.

And if you haven't realized it yet, I'm totally ripping this off, but with larger plenums and equal length runners, plus the EG would have more room on the drivers side top of the motor for the panel filter, and has COP instead of the IGN coils mounted there, so it's completely open:


Thanks guys!

[icingdeath88]

Very cool idea. The problem in the SVX engine bay actually is more the very tight space under the intake manifold for it to fit. Hence, the shadow machine, with it's big plenum sticking through the hood, and the very tight airflow angle that the ecutune manifold created. Seems to me that the other subaru engine bays have more room top-to-bottom, so you could fit a taller plenum.

Something like this was the best I had come up with though: http://www.sl-i.net/FORUM/viewtopic.php?p=160550

Your idea is much better, since it incorporates the TMIC.

[bishop]

http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/125/img7910w.jpg

maybe a custom manifold like this?

[BRZCory]

Originally Posted by bishop

http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/125/img7910w.jpg

maybe a custom manifold like this?

No, a single plenum intake would take up all my supercharger space.

I want to do dual plenums kinda like this:


so that I can fit the supercharger between them with the outlet manifold dumping into the lower part of a WRX-ish intercooler.

also, bought this yesterday for $75. 60,000 miles on it, no play.

[oab_au]

A PD blower on this engine is the best way of improving performance.

But you must start with the engine as it is now, producing 220hp. In the past, to install the blower, the inlet manifold has been butchered and it is the inlet manifold that is the key to this engines power.

7lbs into the standard engine will net you 330hp. Change the inlet manifold, engine's output drops to 160hp, add 7psi to get 240hp.

This is what happened with the ECU installation, I would fit the blower so that it blows into the standard manifold, to get the best results.

Harvey.

[processengr]

Is that an Eaton M62?

[BRZCory]

Originally Posted by oab_au

A PD blower on this engine is the best way of improving performance.

But you must start with the engine as it is now, producing 220hp. In the past, to install the blower, the inlet manifold has been butchered and it is the inlet manifold that is the key to this engines power.

7lbs into the standard engine will net you 330hp. Change the inlet manifold, engine's output drops to 160hp, add 7psi to get 240hp.

This is what happened with the ECU installation, I would fit the blower so that it blows into the standard manifold, to get the best results.

Harvey.

I was under the impression that the stock manifold makes it's power via intake resonance tuning (IRIS valve). And that boost of any type would cancel out the effects of such (hence why turbocharged/supercharged cars don't have variable length intakes, because the pressure wave is a minimal factor compared to the charged intake air).

Processengr, it's an M90. I'd need twin M62's on an EG! which would allow you to retain the stock manifold if you could find room for all of that, but then you'd probably need a 12" cowl hood!

[Tireiron]

Originally Posted by BRZCory

No, a single plenum intake would take up all my supercharger space.

also, bought this yesterday for $75. 60,000 miles on it, no play.

Eaton M62 off a GM car (pontiac or buick riviera). Good for minimal boost, up to 7PSI or so before maxing out volume efficiency on a 3.3L motor. The M90 is found mostly on the ford thunderbirds and does not have an integrated throttle body. The rotor section on an M90 is a good deal longer than that.

Edit: the M62 was the series 1, looks like they upgraded it to a M90 later on. I always searched for the ford M90 because of the odd output on the GM versions of their chargers. The ford used a standard square outlet instead of the manifold style outlet with all the odd ports and odd flange setup.

[1986nate]

Originally Posted by Tireiron

Eaton M62 off a GM car (pontiac or buick riviera). Good for minimal boost, up to 7PSI or so before maxing out volume efficiency on a 3.3L motor. The M90 is found mostly on the ford thunderbirds and does not have an integrated throttle body. The rotor section on an M90 is a good deal longer than that.

Edit: the M62 was the series 1, looks like they upgraded it to a M90 later on. I always searched for the ford M90 because of the odd output on the GM versions of their chargers. The ford used a standard square outlet instead of the manifold style outlet with all the odd ports and odd flange setup.

The M90's found on the GM's are more efficient and are gen 3 design vs the gen 2's on the Ford T-birds. After 03, GM's started using the Gen 5 M90's which have a built in bypass for better fuel economy and were made even more efficient.

[BRZCory]

Originally Posted by 1986nate

The M90's found on the GM's are more efficient and are gen 3 design vs the gen 2's on the Ford T-birds. After 03, GM's started using the Gen 5 M90's which have a built in bypass for better fuel economy and were made even more efficient.

Close!

GM used various eaton superchargers on the various 3800 series cars. They used M62's, M90 gen 3's and M90 Gen 5's. The Gen 5's (or V's) had a bit different outlet design, more efficient coated rotors, and a few other small changes (But all eaton roots type blowers to my knowledge have the bypass valve, as it's essential to MPG's)

(list of who got what type of eaton supercharger, handy for junkyard or car-part.com hunting)
http://www.thehighspeedlab.com/catalogsc004.html

Ford uses an M112 on their V8 cars (lightning and mustang and whatnot).

My particular supercharger is an Eaton M90 Gen 3. It has an integrated bypass valve (You can see the vacuum actuator on the lower part of my picture). It also has the throttle body (and what I assume to be a MAF) still attached to it, but these will be replaced by custom pieces down the line (still trying to decide if I want to try and get the dual-throttle-body from the EG to work, or if I want to go with something else). As for the outlet, again, I'm a machinist, so making a custom blockoff plate is literally a half-hour job. Then just make a big circle in it, silver solder/braze/weld/jbweld on a 3"(ish) round piece, and voila, you can attach that to the bottom of the WRX intercooler with a simple silicone elbow.

Or at least that's the short version, actually I'll probably have a stepped manifold of some sort, but time will tell!

And then off of that will be custom intake plenums, but again, time will tell.

[2006eg33]

too run dual extremely short runner intakes without the iris system will need monsterous camshafts to build the power at the extremely high rpms those intake runners would need.

running short runners like that with stock cams, will drop the power down to n/a 2.5 hp numbers. then you gotta use boost to first make up the difference, it would probably take 15psi just to crack 300. a centrifugal blower, or turbo is seemingly the only option on these engines, where you can retain the stock intake manifold.

but throw some forged pistons, massive cams in, springs, solid buckets, 2 short runner intakes and a PD blower, and you could build a monster.

[oab_au]

Originally Posted by BRZCory

I was under the impression that the stock manifold makes it's power via intake resonance tuning (IRIS valve). And that boost of any type would cancel out the effects of such (hence why turbocharged/supercharged cars don't have variable length intakes, because the pressure wave is a minimal factor compared to the charged intake air).

Processengr, it's an M90. I'd need twin M62's on an EG! which would allow you to retain the stock manifold if you could find room for all of that, but then you'd probably need a 12" cowl hood!

First off Cory, the standard manifold does not have “variable length intakes”. It uses two systems, an Inertia system till 4000rpm then a Resonate system from 4000rpm up. Both of these run on a inlet pressure of 14.74psi. It will do the same on an inlet pressure of 21psi. The inlet pressure does not change the way Inertia or Resonate pulsing works. The higher inlet pressure only increases the mass airflow delivered to the engine. It does not change the physics.

About 6 years ago we talked about this, when the ECU tune blower was being used. It was maintained by some that the Svx IRIS would not work when boost was applied, and that the engine power would keep increasing, regardless of the engines inlet system, and because the blower was going to keep pumping air, the power would keep increasing.

In the build the inertia system was removed and the Resonate system had its plenum removed. So that the engines standard power was reduced to a normal 3.3lt engine with no inlet systems.

As time has shown, the end result was that the engine didn't produced the power it was supposed to give with the boost pressure it received, and the torque/power peaks were produced at the same rpm as the standard engine. If the blower had been mounted else were, and the inlet manifold kept as it was, the power would have been produced.

If you want to read this thread about it, ignoring the intrusions, and sidetracking.

http://www.subaru-svx.net/forum/showthread.php?t=32065

Harvey.

[EdWindows]

Originally Posted by icingdeath88

Very cool idea. The problem in the SVX engine bay actually is more the very tight space under the intake manifold for it to fit. Hence, the shadow machine, with it's big plenum sticking through the hood, and the very tight airflow angle that the ecutune manifold created. Seems to me that the other subaru engine bays have more room top-to-bottom, so you could fit a taller plenum.

Something like this was the best I had come up with though: http://www.sl-i.net/FORUM/viewtopic.php?p=160550

Your idea is much better, since it incorporates the TMIC.

I was thinking of doing that as well, but with an M62 or similar type of twin-screw supercharger for better efficiency and not really needing an intercooler.

This guy did it but he's able to fit a TMIC.
http://www.rs25.com/forums/f7/t92852...d-diy-how.html

[EdWindows]

Found this while looking up various S/C threads. Anyone know what intercooler that is (or at least the dimensions)?

[icingdeath88]

^ interesting find. got a link to that original thread?

Because the intercooler has two outlets matched to the TBs, it's probably either a one-off or modified one. It's possible to buy intercooler cores and then have the ends made for whatever your application is.