2007 Shelby GT500

[Shadow248]

Originally Posted by upnygimp

Thats funny, because your statistics are totally wrong. Its at more than 450/450 and SVT is famous for underrating their cars- theres a rumor floating around that Shelby himself slipped and said its at 520/520 but thats unconfimed. At any rate, its been quoted that they dont call it the GT500 for nothing. Weights are more like 31XX (estimated) vs 34XX (GT weight, cars are very similar so its prolly a safe bet that its gonna be at or near this weight). As for suspension, its pretty much the same one under the FR500C Grand Am cup cars that have been tearing that series up on their first year out against M3s, 996/997s, and CTS-Vs, so you know its gonna be able to track/handle VERY well. Archaic technology doesnt always mean worse, I mean the Vette itself has used leaf springs for many years. It has 14"/13" brakes just like the Z06. I have a good feeling that this car is gonna surprise quite a few people once they roll out all the specs.

You can claim what you want about what the real power of the Cobra is. Until we have evidence to prove it's underrated, you can't say anything. If you look at the specs of the engine, 520 crank hp is all but impossible. Not enough airflow to produce that power, plus the SC is soaking up energy too. Sorry to dissapoint you.

BTW, the first Dyno of an LS2 (regular) Corvette yielded 393hp/390lbft. Do the math - that's 452hp/449lbft at the crank, on a car rated at 400hp/400lbft. And it's track times jive with that power/weight ratio. Wanna talk about underrated now? The LS7 that traveled the show circuit in the GTO Judge Concept put out 575/550 at the crank. Would you like to bet the LS7 in the Vette is any different? I don't recommend it.

Doesn't matter if the ZO6 is 29XXlbs (like every reliable source out there says) or 31XXlbs (like you say)...it's still got a significant weight advantage over the Cobra. BTW, the regular GT is 3560lb's, and the race-prepped GT-R with the same engine as the Cobra (minus the blower) is 3680lbs. No way in hell that Cobra is going to be under 3500lbs.

They call it the GT500 because it's the ultimate Mustang...just like the original GT500 which also did not have 500hp.

Originally Posted by upnygimp

Archaic technology doesnt always mean worse

Well there's something we agree on. Too bad no one else seems to.

[Shadow248]

Originally Posted by Beav

For a number of months now the Ford boys have been selling 5.0 OHC crate engines. A little different block with 1mm liners vs. the 2mm liners the 4.6 uses. Comes with EFI or four Webers. The EFI version comes with a full harness and standalone ECU. Drop in for a tick under fifteen large. EFI rated @ 420 hp, carb version around 390. These are NA engines so a blown 5.4 should have little trouble exceeding 500hp.

But remember, to add the blower they had to drop compression, sacrificing NA power. So the engine in the cobra, minus the blower, is probably a 350hp motor. The LS series motors are a great example of this. The LS1 is 345hp stock, the LS6 is 405hp stock. So your first impulse would be to say that the LS6 would be a better starting point if you wanted to add a supercharger because you'd be starting out with more power right? Wrong. The LS6 is considerably higher compression. The LS1 is a much better choice for supercharging. SC'ed LS1's have broken 600hp. The best SC'ed LS6 known dynoed at 552hp.

Just something to think about.

[NeedForSpeed]

Beav,

I read some time back that to get the bore needed for a 5.0 version of the 4.6, Ford had to use 0.5 mm liners. Where did you find your number?

The SVX appears to use 2mm liners, a common size.

Ron

Originally Posted by Beav

For a number of months now the Ford boys have been selling 5.0 OHC crate engines. A little different block with 1mm liners vs. the 2mm liners the 4.6 uses. Comes with EFI or four Webers. The EFI version comes with a full harness and standalone ECU. Drop in for a tick under fifteen large. EFI rated @ 420 hp, carb version around 390. These are NA engines so a blown 5.4 should have little trouble exceeding 500hp.

[Chiketkd]

Originally Posted by Weasel 22

I like these new Fords...they seem to be going in the right direction now..the new Stang, the GT....very cool machinery..that Cobra looks mean..it looks currently like its Fords time to shine again

Ditto. Several of Ford's new 'halo' models look amazing!

-Chike

[Chiketkd]

Originally Posted by Shadow248

The Cobra's price will be $40-$42k depending on options. Best bet on a demand based markup when they first drop.

Ford wasn't crazy enough to go after the ZO6 with a Mustang. That would take such a godawful amount of power to make up for the design disadvantage it would be hard to make streetable.

The Cobra will no doubt be competing with the 2006 GTO Judge (480hp). Now that will be some fun.

Well GM currently has the 400hp LS2 engine in the '05 GTO. Rumor has it that the next gen of the Cadillac CTS-V and GTO Judge will get the new 7.0L LS7 Z06 engine which is good for 500+hp.



The CTS-V needs 500hp to go head-to-head with the new V10 BMW M5, Audi RS6 and the S/C offerings from Mercedes-Benz, while Shadow correctly mentioned that the GTO Judge is aimed squarely at the next Shelby Cobra.

It's a great time to be an auto enthusiast!

-Chike

[upnygimp]

Like I keep telling everybody,we'll see. Theres prolly gonna be a lot of Z06 fanboys crying "Wait......the Z06 is sposed to be fast4r!"

[Sidewinder]

Originally Posted by Shadow248

Well there's something we agree on. Too bad no one else seems to.

I completely agree too. Mopar and GM have always turned to displacement versus technology. Now GM is starting to use technology, but Mopar continues to get bigger without getting smarter. I am sick of Viper V10's that "will crush anything" when you can take a V8, use some intelligence, and easily get 500hp.

[Beav]

Originally Posted by NeedForSpeed

Beav,

I read some time back that to get the bore needed for a 5.0 version of the 4.6, Ford had to use 0.5 mm liners. Where did you find your number?

The SVX appears to use 2mm liners, a common size.

Ron

God only knows for sure. I read so much stuff at work each day I would suspect it came straight from the horse's mouth (FoMoCo corporate.) I do know that the stock 4.6 block won't allow 5.0 and a slightly tweaked block was engineered. Coupled with the 1mm liners is how they were able to get there. They had considered spraying the cylinders but found it too expensive.

BTW - why are people getting worked up over a car that looks like a Cavalier/Alero/ old Celica? Somebody, please add a puking smilie here ><

[Electrophil]

Originally Posted by dcarrb

Tricky Dick Nixon, actually. There was an OPEC embargo of petroleum sales to the United States; this following the peak (read: beginning of the decline) of domestic oil production in 1970. (Yes, 1970.) As a result, Detroit, which had gleefully been marketing size and horsepower for a decade, took a hit from more efficient, better made imports from which it is yet to fully rocover.

Collectively, we as a nation have a very short memory. Witness the Big Three's marketing today. I like the new Cobra... alot, (tho' I go along with whoever inferred that "Mustang Cobra" is a goofy model designation). But automakers had better take to heart the lessons of the early 70s, and soon.

dcb

True... And us knowing their R&D on these things run several years... , and taking a look at gas prices right now, their timing is just a weeeeeee bit bad for 500hp engines. I hope it isn't, but it will probably be very short lived, then shelved.

[Shadow248]

Originally Posted by upnygimp

Like I keep telling everybody,we'll see. Theres prolly gonna be a lot of Z06 fanboys crying "Wait......the Z06 is sposed to be fast4r!"

You should probably wait to make that comment until you see what the new ZO6 can actually do in the real world. All we have on either the ZO6 or Cobra right now is factory numbers. We have good reason to believe both are grossly underrated. This being the case, my money is on the ZO6...by a longshot.

Originally Posted by Chiketkd

Well GM currently has the 400hp LS2 engine in the '05 GTO. Rumor has it that the next gen of the Cadillac CTS-V and GTO Judge will get the new 7.0L LS7 Z06 engine which is good for 500+hp.

The Judge will have a detuned LS7 (just a lower lift cam) that will be rated at 480hp. That's the news at this point. The great part about this is all you would have to do is slap in the factory ZO6 cam and you'd have 500hp...most likely more (see comments about about factory hp ratings). Or even better throw in whatever aftermarket cams they have and tune...how does 600hp sound? That's music to MY ears.

[Chiketkd]

Originally Posted by Shadow248

The Judge will have a detuned LS7 (just a lower lift cam) that will be rated at 480hp. That's the news at this point. The great part about this is all you would have to do is slap in the factory ZO6 cam and you'd have 500hp...most likely more (see comments about about factory hp ratings). Or even better throw in whatever aftermarket cams they have and tune...how does 600hp sound? That's music to MY ears.

600hp is definitely music to my ears. I know exactly what you mean about GM's factory ratings on their performance vehicles... Ford and Dodge have also done this as well on some of their halo models.

-Chike

[Landshark]

Originally Posted by Shadow248

The Judge will have a detuned LS7 (just a lower lift cam) that will be rated at 480hp. That's the news at this point. The great part about this is all you would have to do is slap in the factory ZO6 cam and you'd have 500hp...most likely more (see comments about about factory hp ratings). Or even better throw in whatever aftermarket cams they have and tune...how does 600hp sound? That's music to MY ears.

if it had AWD i'd be all over it. the new GTO seems to have gotten a little more attention, as compared to the first one we got offered, which seemed kind of a "slapped-together-in-a-hurry" for the U.S. market.

i just don't want to have a winter beater support vehicle to go along with it.

[Shadow248]

Originally Posted by Landshark

if it had AWD i'd be all over it. the new GTO seems to have gotten a little more attention, as compared to the first one we got offered, which seemed kind of a "slapped-together-in-a-hurry" for the U.S. market.

I doubt we'll ever see an AWD GTO. Just like you complain about cars that are not AWD that should be, if they made the GTO (a car that SHOULD be RWD) with an AWD option, the outcries would be overwhelming.

I prefer to have a winter beater...i can't stand salt splashing my nice clean paint.

[Landshark]

Originally Posted by Shadow248

I doubt we'll ever see an AWD GTO. Just like you complain about cars that are not AWD that should be, if they made the GTO (a car that SHOULD be RWD) with an AWD option, the outcries would be overwhelming.

but its OK if they bastardize an Australian car in a rush, then slap the name of an American icon on it? i wasn't saying they would or should, but if it was AWD, i'd buy it. hell, Dodge is making a 4-door Charger , so an AWD GTO would be less of a stretch.

I prefer to have a winter beater...i can't stand salt splashing my nice clean paint.

i'd rather just wash it often than maintaining another vehicle. my previous winter beaters have been pains in the arse. easier to wash than repair.

[Shadow248]

Originally Posted by Landshark

but its OK if they bastardize an Australian car in a rush, then slap the name of an American icon on it? i wasn't saying they would or should, but if it was AWD, i'd buy it. hell, Dodge is making a 4-door Charger , so an AWD GTO would be less of a stretch.

I have a new opinion on this. Since Pontiac is trying to create a more premium image, they should put the GTO name back to sleep. In 2007, instead of building the retro-design Camaro AND GTO, just build the Camaro that way and keep the Pontiac car "forward designed" and call it the "G8".

I agree with anyone who says that GTO was the wrong name to use. It's a sweet car, but it'll never be a true GTO.