My 1/4 mile times - Page 3

Nomake Wan · #31 10-02-2007, 04:12 PM

But isn't the gearing on say the WRX 5spd different from the 91 Legacy Turbo? Wouldn't that make a difference too? I mean we're not just talking 1990 cars here, we have transmission transplants from many years later.

NikFu S. · #32 10-02-2007, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nomake Wan

But isn't the gearing on say the WRX 5spd different from the 91 Legacy Turbo? Wouldn't that make a difference too? I mean we're not just talking 1990 cars here, we have transmission transplants from many years later.

I believe he is comparing the Legacy 5 spd to the Legacy auto.

The only reason the autos would be faster is do to quick shifting. The MTs would be faster due to less weight, generally lower gearing due to more gears fitting in a smaller space, and instant torque (as opposed to torque "conversion" from a viscous liquid)

benebob · #33 10-02-2007, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NikFu S.

I believe he is comparing the Legacy 5 spd to the Legacy auto.

The only reason the autos would be faster is do to quick shifting. The MTs would be faster due to less weight, generally lower gearing due to more gears fitting in a smaller space, and instant torque (as opposed to torque "conversion" from a viscous liquid)

Doesn't matter what you're comparing it to, consistatly an auto will outpreform a manual in drag racing whether its a subaru or a corvette. Look at the results, they don't lie. Could be a Legacy Turbo, first gen legacy, first gen Impreza 2nd gen legacy they all had a similar 1/4 mile result (close enough for statistically equal once different factors like temp, age of the test car etc) from professional testing. Since all the experts here don't believe it then I guess they don't read car mags?

NikFu S. · #34 10-02-2007, 06:17 PM

I can see that being the case if the gearing is similar and redline is the same (meaning the auto can pull as high as the manual) and can make full use of the powerband.

crazyhorse · #35 10-02-2007, 06:20 PM

Eliminating all other factors, an auto will always be quicker at the strip. More importantly, for bracket racers, they're WAY more consistent.

NikFu S. · #36 10-02-2007, 06:32 PM

I think we are kinda getting off track here. The only factor worth looking at is the 4eat and final drive in the SVX compared to the MTs available. There is no logical reason a 5mt swap will be slower than the stock auto unless the driver does not shift well or there are other technical problems.
A quick search of the internet and you'll find yes, everyone agrees autos are faster in the quarter, pound for pound, but that's it. It's easy to get a solid launch and the gears shift quickly as long as line pressure is high.

I'll tell you this though, if I can launch and shift a 5MT as quickly as I can launch and shift the V-Star, it's no contest. I'm going to hazard a guess and say I can pull a shift on that bike in 1/4th of a second.

Ricochet · #37 10-02-2007, 07:13 PM

fyi

http://www.subaru-svx.net/forum/showthread.php?t=41043

TomsSVX · #38 10-02-2007, 07:17 PM

autos will beat out 5mt's... under a couple conditions.

The auto needs to be in good shape with good shift maps.

The auto needs to be built for really crisp shifts... If the gear shift takes .8 seconds (believe me they do) thats .8 seconds you are losing. I can bang out a shift in my 6mt in less time than a SVX auto box can any day... I just have to do it 2-3 more times than the svx. Turbo cars especially benefit because a 5mt will drop pressure. An auto will have turbo lag once off the line and then keeps up pressure throughout the run.... All this aside, it is merely getting out of the hole with a 5mt that makes it that much faster.... A gut busting sub 2.0 sec launch

will pics up a bunch of time in the 1/4 and your traps will be much lower as well.

Tom

Nevin · #39 10-02-2007, 09:32 PM

I look forward to the day when I can get in my SVX turbo and go do an automatic AWD turbo launch. VERY hard to beat one of those!

benebob · #40 10-03-2007, 06:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NikFu S.

The only factor worth looking at is the 4eat and final drive in the SVX compared to the MTs available. There is no logical reason a 5mt swap will be slower than the stock auto unless the driver does not shift well or there are other technical problems.

Your right, makes sense to compare apples to oranges.

Nomake Wan · #41 10-03-2007, 12:20 PM

That's the whole problem though! An auto will be faster than a manual with all else being equal. The point here is that all else is not equal. You have an auto from 1990 and a manual from... what, 1998 or something? Totally different gearing and setup.

Now if you go and rebuild that auto to have better gearing, stronger internals, higher stall speed, etc etc etc... then it'll spank a 5spd of the same calibre.

The point is that what are being compared aren't of the same calibre. So it's pointless to argue that the stock auto would be faster. I'm pretty sure the times posted here prove that's not so...

NikFu S. · #42 10-03-2007, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by benebob

Your right, makes sense to compare apples to oranges.

Isn't that what we are working with? My apple is broken and I want it to be an orange.

benebob · #43 10-03-2007, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nomake Wan

That's the whole problem though! An auto will be faster than a manual with all else being equal. The point here is that all else is not equal. You have an auto from 1990 and a manual from... what, 1998 or something? Totally different gearing and setup.

Now if you go and rebuild that auto to have better gearing, stronger internals, higher stall speed, etc etc etc... then it'll spank a 5spd of the same calibre.

The point is that what are being compared aren't of the same calibre. So it's pointless to argue that the stock auto would be faster. I'm pretty sure the times posted here prove that's not so...

I never said a 3.53 gearing was faster than a 4.44 I simply stated that an auto will put up better times than a same geared manual. You need to compare apples to apples not the oranges. I know there are plenty of neons that are faster than an SVX in a 1/4 so they must be better cars right. Do you need help realizing the truth still?

Evil One · #44 10-03-2007, 02:16 PM

SERIOUS disagreement on an auto being faster with all things being equal.
Look at ford mustang GTs. Especially the 90s models. Same car, same engine, and the autos are a second slower. Similer thing with 90s stock camaros and firebirds.
In a race... as in drag strip only application the autos are better.

Jim

Nomake Wan · #45 10-03-2007, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by benebob

I never said a 3.53 gearing was faster than a 4.44 I simply stated that an auto will put up better times than a same geared manual. You need to compare apples to apples not the oranges. I know there are plenty of neons that are faster than an SVX in a 1/4 so they must be better cars right. Do you need help realizing the truth still?

That's not it... *shakes head* I already know that an auto with the same gearing as a manual will put better drag times down. That isn't what's being compared in this thread, though. You can't just magically change someone's specs just to make your argument work out. It's a stock auto versus a 5spd. The gearing is different. Therefore it makes sense that the 5spd got better times.

In general you would be correct, but this thread isn't "in general." This thread has specifics, which you constantly ignore.