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  #31  
Old 04-02-2006, 02:01 PM
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Thumbs up 4ws finally fixed

Finally. I can report my SVX is now running as it was designed.

For three days last week technicians at Subaru's Auckland dealership (Winger Subaru) labored to correct the problem caused when they removed, reconditioned and replaced the steering rack in February, without knowing the vehicle had 4ws.

To get the adjustments right, the techs referred the problem to Subaru New Zealand. It seems the problem was that the rack was reassembled wrong. The steering pinion was two teeth off the centre of the rack.

Once the rack and pinion was correctly centered, and all 4 wheels correctly aligned, it was possible to finally reset the steering angle sensor to zero.

The results are darn near miraculous. Not only does the car now track like glue through corners, its gas milage has improved and it actually "feels" as though it is all together again. Those strange clunks and groans seem to have vanished, and it is settling down nicely.

My thanks to you guys for your support.
If it were able, I am sure the car would thank you too.


Now I can get on with the fun of learning to drive it.
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  #32  
Old 04-02-2006, 03:41 PM
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Bloody marvellous! How did you convince them to do that? They finally figured that they'd screwed it up in the first place?
Well done, justice feels good doesn't it!

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  #33  
Old 04-02-2006, 03:51 PM
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  #34  
Old 04-02-2006, 04:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by floatingkiwi
How did you convince them to do that?
matt
Basically they took several hundred bucks off me then worked out they had to fix the problem.

I could argue they should have done the job right from the get-go, but if they had I doubt the previous owner would have sold it to me.

Sort of catch 22.

Last edited by nutshell; 04-02-2006 at 06:00 PM.
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  #35  
Old 04-02-2006, 04:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nutshell
Basically they tools several hundred bucks off me then worked out they had to fix the problem.

I could argue they should have done the job right from the get-go, but if they had I doubt the previous owner would have sold it to me.

Sort of catch 22.
All very alarming, as I thought Winger Subaru knew their stuff. After all the fix analysis was quite logical, taking all of what they had done into account.

As there appears to be little data on offer, a short explanation of how it all works may prove of interest.

The four wheel steering system is completely electrical, there being no mechanical connection between the steering and the rear wheels. A potentiometer type transducer is fitted to the bottom of the steering column as the actuating control device.

The rear wheel steering is mechanically actuated by means of an electric motor and a position sensor is incorporated at the output of the associated reduction gear box. The controller is mounted as a unit in the rear luggage space. The motor is switched by means of field effect transistors within the controller. The circuit is continuously alive and does not turn of with the ignition for obvious reasons. As a result, this should be taken into account in the event of a flat battery problem, which is otherwise not accountable.
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  #36  
Old 04-02-2006, 04:55 PM
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Hey Nutshell, that's great news. I was wondering about your problem.

Actually, a few days ago I took my SVX in for it's annual MOT test and the mechanic told me that there was a little bit of play in the steering rack. Maybe it would need reconditioning for next year's test.

Given your experience, that suggestion scared the living the crap out of me. I'm not letting anybody mess with it unless it becomes a genuine safety issue.

Gotta love the way these 4WS cars corner.

Glad you got it sorted.

Phil.
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  #37  
Old 04-02-2006, 05:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor
The circuit is continuously alive and does not turn of with the ignition for obvious reasons. As a result, this should be taken into account in the event of a flat battery problem, which is otherwise not accountable.
Hi Trevor,

Could you explain please? The obvious reasons are not obvious to me at this time of night. Are you saying that turning the steering wheel with the battery disconnected will cause the front and rear wheels to lose syncronisation?

Phil.
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  #38  
Old 04-02-2006, 07:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b3lha
Hi Trevor,

Could you explain please? The obvious reasons are not obvious to me at this time of night. Are you saying that turning the steering wheel with the battery disconnected will cause the front and rear wheels to lose syncronisation?

Phil.
Greetings Phyl,

No I am not saying that. The position sensor and the controller will retain continual syncronisation regardless.

Problems could occur if the ignition switch was turned off when the car was moving. That is if the supply was not arranged as it is.

By the way the controller and motor are from Mitsubishi Electric.

Trevor.
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  #39  
Old 04-27-2009, 01:26 AM
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Thumbs up Re: 4WS no go :-(

Just thought I'd update this record. All positive.
The 4WS took me about 18 months to get really comfortable with.
Now it makes me wonder why Subaru dropped it after only 500 vehicles.
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  #40  
Old 04-27-2009, 06:37 AM
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Re: 4WS no go :-(

Quote:
Originally Posted by nutshell View Post
Just thought I'd update this record. All positive.
The 4WS took me about 18 months to get really comfortable with.
Now it makes me wonder why Subaru dropped it after only 500 vehicles.
Ian, as you know the active AWS model was released only in Japan. The top of the range models were the CXD variants, which came "fully loaded" with practically every available option as standard, including AWS.

Feedback from Japan suggests that poor sales of this top model resulted in the CXD variant getting dropped from the lineup early on. Looking in from the outside it seems that most Japanese buyers are wary of complexity, at least of over-complexity. They already have a regime that forces them back to the dealer after a few years to replace seatbelts and other expensive components, or the car does not pass their Shaken test. It looks like this test is fashioned to make it expensive to retain an older car, thereby making it cheaper or more economically advantageous to buy a new car. An imposed inflationary measure to boost the economy.

Combined with teething problems in some of the early release AWS cars, I think this may have put the seal of doom on the more advanced hi-tech SVXes as far as customer sales were concerned. I could be wrong in this, but that's how it looks.

Enjoy your car,

Joe
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  #41  
Old 04-27-2009, 04:17 PM
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Re: 4WS no go :-(

Thank Joe

I knew there had to be a logical answer, but for the life of me the work (not to mentuion cost) that must have been applied to develop the AWS...and then to drop it.

Amazing!

Trust your beast is running fine.
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  #42  
Old 04-27-2009, 04:55 PM
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Re: 4WS no go :-(



Beasts, Ian. Plural.

Yeah, all going well here, thanks Ian. I probably have two cars I should sell, but I like them, and the current prices on offer are insulting. It does mean I have a little work to do starting and running them periodically to keep them fettled, but that's a pleasure as much as a chore.

Graham is using the AWS one in England, and the steering on that one gave problems. I'm never sure if it is working right or not. I suspect it may be related to changing the clock from reading kilometres to miles, possibly compounded by adding an aftermarket alarm. It stops and goes and does everything it should, so I expect it's OK. Soon we will be giving it a fresh engine from another car, so it is due a big amount of mechanical work.

Possibly when we get that work done I will ship it home to Ireland, but that would have to be after selling the good '95 car I have here.

Joe
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  #43  
Old 04-27-2009, 05:27 PM
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Re: 4WS no go :-(

Just thought you might be intersted in a somewhat pertinent side note. While SVXs with all-wheel steering were never offered in the U.S., Hondas and Mitsubishis were. I have had the experience of driving all three variants.

First was a Honda Civic, which had mechanical all wheel steering. When the steering wheel was turned only a few degrees, as with normal highway driving, the rear wheels worked as they do on an AWS SVX, that is, they turned parallel to the fronts, but only a few degrees. However, the steering box was set up so that when the wheel was turned beyond a certain amount, the rears would steer opposite to the fronts, enormously reducing the turning circle. It was a delight to drive, the on-road handling was excellent, and parking was a dream, it could make a u-turn in a parking lot aisle. The system used a shaft from the front steering rack to a steering box at the rear axle. All mechanical, and relatively simple.

Honda next went to an electric system which was offered on the Prelude. I believe this is the same system that was offered on the Mitsubishi Galant the same year. (I think 1989, 1990, perhaps.) This system did not produce the opposite lock for parking, but did have the parallel steering similar to what was offered on the SVX. On the Mitsubishi, it worked like a champ, creating that feeling of extra stability. It also did on the Honda, except for a strange defect on the one car I drove, which Honda refused to explain to me when queried about it. I had taken the car on a 130 mile highway trip, with no problems. On the return journey, I was changing lanes on the freeway when a loud "clunk" came from the rear, and the car seemed to be travelling diagonally down the road, similarly to an old body-on-frame car which has been in an accident and the frame was improperly straightened. As I slowed, the steering came back to normal. There was a switch to turn the AWS off, and I did so. The car seemed perfectly normal, so after a few miles I turned it back on again. And again, shortly, came that clunk, and the car was travelling diagonally. I turned the AWS off, and drove home in a less responsive, but more trustworthy, Prelude. A couple of days later, when I returned the car to Honda, I told them about the problem, and asked to know what they found. I never heard, and when I queried them a week or so later, all they would tell me was, "there was a problem." I knew that.

I drove the Galant model with no problems, but both systems were discontinued the following model year.
Paul
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