SVX Engine cooling "Again & Again" - Page 110

Tapani · #**1636** 10-01-2013, 05:13 AM

The flow at high revs needs to be decreased. T

Tapani · #**1637** 10-01-2013, 05:14 AM

Sorry about the red face. I am on my phone and do not know how I managed to do that

. T

'E' · #**1638** 10-01-2013, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tapani

Sorry about the red face. I am on my phone and do not know how I managed to do that

. T

Lol that's ok I won't be leaving the forum

Tapani · #**1639** 10-01-2013, 08:31 AM

I hope no one takes any offence - absolutely none is intended.

I replaced the water pump when I did the HG job. I kept the old one....

I tried drilling the impeller - there's no difficulty what so ever. It's very soft. Judging by the ultra short chips it's gray cast iron.

I took a 10mm straight cutter and made a hole at the tip of a vane.

See photo. The last half a millimeter can be dremmelled off.... didn't want to touch the pump body.

Drilling the tips of half of the vanes would be a nice try for someone with a test setup..... or if someone comes up with a better "drilling plan"

Tapani

Tapani · #**1640** 10-01-2013, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bazza

My mate with his now 1000 bhp EG33 finally found the cavitation issue as I've already said and he went to an electric water pump to solve it.

Bazza - your mate had no problems at 500+hp @ 6000 rpm for extended times. Now at 1000 hp he sees "cavitation".... are you sure it's the same phenomenon the guys with NA engines are experiencing at high revs?

The difference in heat rejection with a 500+hp engine and a 1000 hp engine is quite different :-)

Just a thought....

/T

Tapani · #**1641** 10-01-2013, 10:13 AM

You guys are all going to hate me for this one, so please accept my apologies at this point

:

http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showth...7106&showall=1

We know the OEM radiator looks flimsy.... that's probably because it's designed for a high coolant flow rate and a low delta T.

What if the high performance radiators do actually have a higher heat release capacity, but are designed for a lower flow rate?

How many people have actually run into these problems with an absolutely stock arrangement, including all the rad side seals and the engine bay underside plastics and all?

Honestly.

Tapani

Tapani · #**1642** 10-01-2013, 11:13 AM

How about decreasing the stock pumps efficiency by drilling / machining and leaving the system as is otherwise...... and then installing a simple electric booster pump for potential low speed overheating situations?

There are plenty of mechanical pumps available for the American iron for high rpm applications (circle track etc). These may well cause low speed overheating issues.

Could this work for the track cars? Best of both worlds?

http://www.stewartcomponents.net/Mer...Code=ElectPump

/T

Tapani · #**1643** 10-01-2013, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bazza

Also doing some more research - Mazda (RX8) and Honda (S2000) water pumps seem to also suffer cavitation issues and time attack guys swap them out for EWP's!

http://www.racingbeat.com/mazda/perf...r-cooling.html

Sensible words.

/T

bazza · #**1644** 10-01-2013, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tapani

Bazza - your mate had no problems at 500+hp @ 6000 rpm for extended times. Now at 1000 hp he sees "cavitation".... are you sure it's the same phenomenon the guys with NA engines are experiencing at high revs?

The difference in heat rejection with a 500+hp engine and a 1000 hp engine is quite different :-)

Just a thought....

/T

Sorry - to clarify he never really saw issues with 500 hp until it was really held done for a long time with back to back runs on the dyno. Once he solved the issue with an electric pump he then turned the wick up... and to everyones suprise it put out 1000 bhp. Was with the cams Harvey said also wouldn't work for interest sake....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tapani

I hope no one takes any offence - absolutely none is intended.

I replaced the water pump when I did the HG job. I kept the old one....

I tried drilling the impeller - there's no difficulty what so ever. It's very soft. Judging by the ultra short chips it's gray cast iron.

I took a 10mm straight cutter and made a hole at the tip of a vane.

See photo. The last half a millimeter can be dremmelled off.... didn't want to touch the pump body.

Drilling the tips of half of the vanes would be a nice try for someone with a test setup..... or if someone comes up with a better "drilling plan"

Tapani

Trevor always said it could be done.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DessertRunner

Steve from Jones racing wanted to drill the impeler but could not do it, the thing is cast and brakes up, so there is not point about talking about some thing that we can't do.

This is exactly why this thread has been going since 2009... crazy.

Tapani · #**1645** 10-01-2013, 09:38 PM

Guys,

Everybodys opinion is important and wellcome. There a very few "single truths".....

Life is too short and the SVX community way too small ...........

Bazza, could you please turn your tone a few click down

?

What do you all say - could we all together ask both Tony and Trevor to rejoin (and behave

)? Yes?

Tapani

svxfiles · #**1646** 10-01-2013, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tapani

Guys,

Everybodys opinion is important and wellcome. There a very few "single truths".....

Life is too short and the SVX community way too small ...........

Bazza, could you please turn your tone a few click down

?

What do you all say - could we all together ask both Tony and Trevor to rejoin (and behave

)? Yes?

Tapani

25,000 SVXi words wide.
Maybe 10,000 left.
Maybe 100 Hot Rodder SVX Guys world Wide.

Can't we all just get along?

When YT and I were in competition with each other, I could still
"TRUST HIM ON RACE DAY"
if I had to do something else,
work an autocross corner ect.
And I knew that He would do the best He could,
on My car,
on RACE DAY!

All ideas are or SHOULD be welcomed.
evan the copper intakes......

Can't we all just get along.

icingdeath88 · #**1647** 10-01-2013, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'E'

Someone may have already asked this but couldn't you change the size of the oem pump pulley to increase flow

No, that would affect the engine timing. You might be able to compensate for it with adjustable cam gears and such, but I don't know if you could compensate enough for it to allow for enough of a change in flow. Also, we don't know how much we can reduce the flow and have it cool properly/evenly at idle. Good idea though.

I think it would be good to determine a goal for the flowrates we need to achieve, and work from there.

bazza · #**1648** 10-03-2013, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by icingdeath88

No, that would affect the engine timing. You might be able to compensate for it with adjustable cam gears and such, but I don't know if you could compensate enough for it to allow for enough of a change in flow. Also, we don't know how much we can reduce the flow and have it cool properly/evenly at idle. Good idea though.

I think it would be good to determine a goal for the flowrates we need to achieve, and work from there.

The computer determines the flow rates if you do decide to run an electric water pump. When engine is hot - flowrate is high. When engine is cold - flow rate is pulsed or low - it's all automatic, voltage is varied from 6V-13.5V by the controller or pulsed. When you also let it control the thermo fans - as per that Mazda video above - it can be extremely effective.

So all you really need to know is what electric pump actually works. If this 1000 bhp car with 150L pump works then it's safe to say it will work on the majority of others. Only difference will be in stock SVX's - it will be doing far less work.

This is the 150L/min pump in that EG33 1000 bhp racecar:
http://www.daviescraig.com.au/Electr...0-details.aspx

Btw: when I tested the EG33 water pump - idle was around 55L/min. I think they must use a big pump to get good flow at idle.... and the peak flow is a negative consequence.

icingdeath88 · #**1649** 10-03-2013, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bazza

The computer determines the flow rates if you do decide to run an electric water pump. When engine is hot - flowrate is high. When engine is cold - flow rate is pulsed or low - it's all automatic, voltage is varied from 6V-13.5V by the controller or pulsed. When you also let it control the thermo fans - as per that Mazda video above - it can be extremely effective.

So all you really need to know is what electric pump actually works. If this 1000 bhp car with 150L pump works then it's safe to say it will work on the majority of others. Only difference will be in stock SVX's - it will be doing far less work.

This is the 150L/min pump in that EG33 1000 bhp racecar:
http://www.daviescraig.com.au/Electr...0-details.aspx

Btw: when I tested the EG33 water pump - idle was around 55L/min. I think they must use a big pump to get good flow at idle.... and the peak flow is a negative consequence.

Did you miss the part where I was talking about using the stock pump with a different sized pulley? not an electric pump...

bazza · #**1650** 10-03-2013, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by icingdeath88

Did you miss the part where I was talking about using the stock pump with a different sized pulley? not an electric pump...

Did you read below? You've got to understand Subaru used the pump they did to suit very low RPM flow rate requirements and not the 7000 rpm requirements.

The issue if you go to a smaller pump is you'll very likely over heat in traffic while idling or at low RPM. It's very hard to get a mechanic pump to do both nicely as we know.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bazza

Btw: when I tested the EG33 water pump - idle was around 55L/min. I think they must use a big pump to get good flow at idle.... and the peak flow is a negative consequence.