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  #16  
Old 11-21-2010, 03:57 PM
1986nate 1986nate is offline
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Re: Brake kits

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Originally Posted by Manarius View Post
It's strange that the calipers don't just bolt right up. Even the newer STI calipers bolt up to the early 90's impreza hubs.
Why is it strange? A new STI is still an impreza and it's not common to retain the same type of mounting throughout generations of the same car. The SVX was a "one-off" frame and chassis and shares almost nothing with any other subaru's. The rear brakes are the same as the rear brakes from legacy's of the same era. The front pads are the same as a Nissan Pathfinder but the actual calipers and even rotors on the front are unique to the SVX only. If it was easy enough to swap over to STI or WRX brakes, it would have been done, and done many times... Go look into the mod forums and you will get an idea of what it takes to put in STI hubs/calipers on an SVX as well as what it takes to put in full STI suspension,hubs, etc as well as the custom parts and costs... There is nothing cheap when it comes to modifications for this car, why don't people seem to understand that?

Oh and to add, WRX brakes don't really have any advantage over stock other than slightly better cost and availability possibly. They are still 2 piston up front and single piston calipers rear... slightly larger rotors and pad area in the rear but not much, front brakes are actually probably smaller.

Last edited by 1986nate; 11-21-2010 at 04:04 PM.
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  #17  
Old 11-21-2010, 05:44 PM
XT6Wagon XT6Wagon is offline
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Re: Brake kits

We really need to look harder at nissan's parts bin for compatible parts. Subarus from the 90's share huge numbers of parts with nissan.

I'm guessing our best bet for bigger front brakes is in the 300zx turbo, but now that the GT-R is also arriving into canada that might be a place to investigate for upgrades along with the JDM Silvia line. I don't know enough about nissans larger non-performance cars to guess what might be good from them.
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  #18  
Old 11-21-2010, 07:36 PM
XT6Wagon XT6Wagon is offline
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Re: Brake kits

looks like the SVX is in bizzaro land with its 302X28mm rotors. Normal fare for the 300zx and skyline looks like 280mm rotors, while the 2006 WRX has 294x24mm. WRX rotors could be drilled for 5 114.3 pattern if they work. 2005+ STi is 326X30mm.
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  #19  
Old 11-21-2010, 10:07 PM
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Re: Brake kits

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Originally Posted by 1986nate View Post
Why is it strange? A new STI is still an impreza and it's not common to retain the same type of mounting throughout generations of the same car. The SVX was a "one-off" frame and chassis and shares almost nothing with any other subaru's. The rear brakes are the same as the rear brakes from legacy's of the same era. The front pads are the same as a Nissan Pathfinder but the actual calipers and even rotors on the front are unique to the SVX only. If it was easy enough to swap over to STI or WRX brakes, it would have been done, and done many times... Go look into the mod forums and you will get an idea of what it takes to put in STI hubs/calipers on an SVX as well as what it takes to put in full STI suspension,hubs, etc as well as the custom parts and costs... There is nothing cheap when it comes to modifications for this car, why don't people seem to understand that?

Oh and to add, WRX brakes don't really have any advantage over stock other than slightly better cost and availability possibly. They are still 2 piston up front and single piston calipers rear... slightly larger rotors and pad area in the rear but not much, front brakes are actually probably smaller.
Okay, the STI is new, but the technology is not. A variety of SVX parts are shared between it and Legacys and Imprezas of the same era of the SVX and after. Several electrical components, fuel injectors, alternators, power steering pump, various knick-knacks with regard to gaskets are shared between Subarus of that era and after. The designs are not that much different either. Two bolts keep the caliper on the hub, the hub is pretty much the same design. Okay, the sizes are different and that keeps them from being interchangeable, but to say that the SVX is completely incompatible with other Subaru parts is, in my opinion, a fairly inaccurate statement. Okay, the brakes don't mod easily. But, in other places on the car, parts from other Subarus look very similar or are exactly the same.
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  #20  
Old 11-21-2010, 10:39 PM
1986nate 1986nate is offline
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Re: Brake kits

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Originally Posted by Manarius View Post
Okay, the STI is new, but the technology is not. A variety of SVX parts are shared between it and Legacys and Imprezas of the same era of the SVX and after. Several electrical components, fuel injectors, alternators, power steering pump, various knick-knacks with regard to gaskets are shared between Subarus of that era and after. The designs are not that much different either. Two bolts keep the caliper on the hub, the hub is pretty much the same design. Okay, the sizes are different and that keeps them from being interchangeable, but to say that the SVX is completely incompatible with other Subaru parts is, in my opinion, a fairly inaccurate statement. Okay, the brakes don't mod easily. But, in other places on the car, parts from other Subarus look very similar or are exactly the same.
When I said almost nothing is compatible, I meant when in comparison to legacy and impreza parts being able to be swapped between those 2 models. Yes, there are a few random things here and there but overall, there really isn't much.
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  #21  
Old 11-22-2010, 09:29 AM
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Re: Brake kits

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Originally Posted by SVX_MY_BABY View Post
Sometimes as they age the lines begin to act like one way valves which stops the fluid and thus pads from retreating when the brake is no longer being applied. Typical symptom of this is premature pad wear and hot wheel from the constant friction. It also give the brakes a less firm feel. Same sort of thing can happen in the master cylinder.

If you are replacing all rotors & pads replacing the lines doesn't add that much too the cost.

I am really pleased with my Cryogenic rotors from ART. About the same price as OEM but last a lot longer.

If you go with re-manufactured callipers I strongly suggest you paint them with calliper or engine paint. The surface on re-mans is shot blasted and rusts very quickly. The centric callipers loaded with pads are reasonably priced. If you buy them trough ART they will pay the shipping back on the cores.
Exactly! Good fluid, braided lines & high quality pads and rotors will make all the difference in the world. I ran cryo treated rotors on my Evo and loved them. Something about a black rotor that just looks cool! Cryo treating really extended the life out of my rotors. I was doing a lot of track days when I lived in England and Brembo rotors aren't cheap. Getting rotors cryo treated isnt too expensive and really pays off in the long run. Even more so if you have a car that is too heavy and/or under-braked.
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  #22  
Old 11-27-2010, 03:16 PM
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Re: Brake kits

I really don't think that modifying stock brake systems from other cars to fit our car is the best idea either. Even if someone WERE to get, say... 300zx brakes to fit, what would that gain you? The rotors are no larger than ours (they still have to fit a 16" wheel, right?) And the calipers wouldn't be much better either, would they? I mean, pretty much any other performance car than ran a 16" rotor was much lighter than the SVX. Now, I realize that a lot of people who WOULD want a BBK would probably have 17" or 18" wheels anyway, but that still means adapting something to the car from something else.

If you could find an aftermarket kit that fit from another car, you might be in business. But for now, I still saw the best BUDGET option is SS lines, drilled rotors, new DOT4 fluid, and pads of your choice. Now, you could piece together your own kit from say USbrake, Brembo, Stoptech, etc... but that's not for the faint of heart either.

The only actual bolt-on alternative is the Movit kit.

Sorry if I brought up something that's been gone over. I kind of just "skimmed" the post.
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Last edited by Nevin; 11-27-2010 at 03:19 PM.
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  #23  
Old 11-29-2010, 02:50 AM
XT6Wagon XT6Wagon is offline
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Re: Brake kits

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Originally Posted by Nevin View Post
I really don't think that modifying stock brake systems from other cars to fit our car is the best idea either. Even if someone WERE to get, say... 300zx brakes to fit, what would that gain you? The rotors are no larger than ours (they still have to fit a 16" wheel, right?) And the calipers wouldn't be much better either, would they? I mean, pretty much any other performance car than ran a 16" rotor was much lighter than the SVX. Now, I realize that a lot of people who WOULD want a BBK would probably have 17" or 18" wheels anyway, but that still means adapting something to the car from something else.

If you could find an aftermarket kit that fit from another car, you might be in business. But for now, I still saw the best BUDGET option is SS lines, drilled rotors, new DOT4 fluid, and pads of your choice. Now, you could piece together your own kit from say USbrake, Brembo, Stoptech, etc... but that's not for the faint of heart either.

The only actual bolt-on alternative is the Movit kit.

Sorry if I brought up something that's been gone over. I kind of just "skimmed" the post.
Rotor size isn't everything. The 300zx turbo brakes for example, while smaller diamiter, use a 4pot caliper. Its also a far more common setup so you have better pad and rotor options. I don't know piston sizing but they might have more actual stopping force despite the smaller rotor.

I am personaly a HUGE fan of more more more rotor even as it pertains to buying the "crap" chinese rotors that just happen to be cast far thicker than the OEM stuff for some cars. More mass = less heat issues. That said a smaller diamiter rotor will cut off a non-trival amount of rotating and unsprung mass. Fixing thermal issues with better calipers, pads, rotors, lines and fluid is easier than finding a couple lbs a corner in unsprung mass.

Just depends on what you are looking for. Cheap upgrades like heavy rotors and ok pads are best for daily drivers. Expensive pads, fluids, lines, etc best for those either under rules restrictions or only need a modest amount more performance there. Converting to the 300zx setup would be the next level above that or perhaps on par depending on difficulty and cost. Full aftermarket kits if done right are the step above that.

Last edited by XT6Wagon; 11-29-2010 at 03:01 AM.
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  #24  
Old 11-29-2010, 11:30 AM
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Re: Brake kits

I don't disagree that the 300zx ones might be worth looking into, but you also have to compare the weight of the vehicles. I don't think the 300's were LIGHT, but I don't think they were as heavy as the svx, so I would still think that even though there are more pistons you may not get more stopping power out of it. And as was eluded to, you need ot take total piston volume into account or it can screw up your brake proportioning.

I found out that '06 mazda6 front rotors and calipers would bolt right onto my '89 mx6. So I did it because I needed brakes anyway, and I figured "Why replace when you can upgrade?" 11.5" vs. 10" rotors was a no-brainer to me. Well, they work pretty decent, but it has really thrown off the brake balance of the vehicle. It doesn't really bother me since I don't track the car, but the larger piston volume in the caliper just takes more time to fill, and messes with pedal feel/travel, as well as actual brake force applied.

And I also have no problem going with larger rotors for just the reasons you said.

I'm sure an "upgrade" from another car would work, but even if one WAS found to work, I still think there's a bit more to it than meets the eye.


That said, has anyone looked into vr4 front brakes? That would be the best candidate I would consider as far as vehicle sizing/performance braking. In the probe community it was found a few years back that vr4 brakes would fit with minimal work. With 12.2" rotors IIRC, same bolt pattern, it's a good place to start anyway.
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  #25  
Old 11-29-2010, 12:05 PM
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Re: Brake kits

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Originally Posted by Nevin View Post
I don't disagree that the 300zx ones might be worth looking into, but you also have to compare the weight of the vehicles. I don't think the 300's were LIGHT, but I don't think they were as heavy as the svx, so I would still think that even though there are more pistons you may not get more stopping power out of it. And as was eluded to, you need ot take total piston volume into account or it can screw up your brake proportioning.
Z32s were between 3100 and 3600. so they were also pretty chunky.

also FWIW Z32 4 pots are pretty much identical to Subaru 4 pots except the ears to bolt them on are spaced differently.

and yes, you should never change the total piston area by much without a new proportioning valve.

frankly I'm a firm believer that most people don't have the slightest idea what a set of good pads and good fluid will do for you. If you do that and still cook your brakes, then move on to something else. It's all to common in the subaru community to see people doing 4pot swaps to "upgrade their brakes" yet still continue to use crap pads....

Although there is some benefits to 4 pots that sliding singles and doubles cant have, such as pad changing without removing the caliper. (reason my track car will be upgraded to 4pots)
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  #26  
Old 11-29-2010, 12:26 PM
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Re: Brake kits

This thread on NASIOC is a really good bit of information. As long as your stock brakes are in good condition no matter what upgrades you do to them you won't be able to stop your car one inch shorter. As long as you can get the ABS to cycle you've maxed out the braking performance of the car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Manarius View Post
It's strange that the calipers don't just bolt right up. Even the newer STI calipers bolt up to the early 90's impreza hubs.
You can bolt any Impreza/Forester caliper to our cars just fine. Brembo's, the Subaru 4-pots (which I'm fairly certain are exactly the same caliper body as the 300ZX TT 4-pots, just with different lettering)... The bolts all line up. The problem is that the SVX was designed for a larger and odd sized rotor, and Subaru did this by moving the mounting points for the caliper further out. So, if you bolt a Brembo caliper to an SVX it sits about 1/2" farther out than it would on an STi and consequently the rotor doesn't match up. You end up with some of your brake pad hanging out in space where there isn't a rotor.
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  #27  
Old 11-29-2010, 12:44 PM
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Re: Brake kits

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Originally Posted by Crazy_pilot View Post
This thread on NASIOC is a really good bit of information. As long as your stock brakes are in good condition no matter what upgrades you do to them you won't be able to stop your car one inch shorter. As long as you can get the ABS to cycle you've maxed out the braking performance of the car.
Stole my line... Unless you are doing prolonged track sessions where heat will be an issue there is no need for a larger than OEM brake setup. A maxxed out tire grip is a maxxed out tire grip. Whether you max it with a 2 piston set up or a 8piston set up. If you want to stop faster, get stickier tires. the following OEM brake set up has suited all my driving events just fine.

Raceconcepts slotted only rotors
New calipers
SS lines
Motul Superblue brake fluid
I forget the pads I have off the top of my head
I also removed the ABS system from my car

That set up is plenty for any auto-x or short track events. If you are wanting to do events where you will be out for over 10 minutes straight then you might want to investigate some different options.
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  #28  
Old 11-29-2010, 04:01 PM
XT6Wagon XT6Wagon is offline
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Re: Brake kits

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Originally Posted by Crazy_pilot View Post
Subaru did this by moving the mounting points for the caliper further out. So, if you bolt a Brembo caliper to an SVX it sits about 1/2" farther out than it would on an STi and consequently the rotor doesn't match up. You end up with some of your brake pad hanging out in space where there isn't a rotor.
If this is true, might be easy enough to make a bolt on brembo kit DIY style. I doubt it will be much cheaper than an aftermarket kit, but allows one to atleast wait and score a deal on the calipers. If the STi brembo's bolt on that just leaves sourcing the correct rotors, which is easier than ever now that 2 piece rotors are popular upgrades. Just have to combine the right rotor ring with the right rotor hat and drill to our bolt pattern. Given how common 5X114.3 cars are might even be some off the shelf 1 peice rotors that work.

Edit: also makes it very easy for companies like Stoptech to offer an aftermarket kit since they wouldn't have to develop something new.

Last edited by XT6Wagon; 11-29-2010 at 04:28 PM.
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  #29  
Old 11-29-2010, 04:38 PM
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Re: Brake kits

I agree that larger brakes really aren't needed unless you're doing some kind of endurance racing.

When I upgraded my own svx to SS lines, new fluid, ceramic pads, and slotted/drilled rotors, I was AMAZED at the difference. I would say that from 70-0 is better than any other car I've ever experienced firsthand. It's basically like throwing out an anchor!
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  #30  
Old 11-29-2010, 05:12 PM
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Re: Brake kits

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Originally Posted by XT6Wagon View Post
If this is true, might be easy enough to make a bolt on brembo kit DIY style. I doubt it will be much cheaper than an aftermarket kit, but allows one to atleast wait and score a deal on the calipers. If the STi brembo's bolt on that just leaves sourcing the correct rotors, which is easier than ever now that 2 piece rotors are popular upgrades. Just have to combine the right rotor ring with the right rotor hat and drill to our bolt pattern. Given how common 5X114.3 cars are might even be some off the shelf 1 peice rotors that work.

Edit: also makes it very easy for companies like Stoptech to offer an aftermarket kit since they wouldn't have to develop something new.
I can't speak to this directly, but Tom (YT) thought that the STI Brembo calipers were already paired with the largest rotor they can use properly. If you went to a larger one it wouldn't match the inner radius of the caliper properly and would have either pad hanging out past the rotor or the rotor hitting the caliper.
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