ECU remap, nitrous, & supercharger

[mbtoloczko]

Originally posted by longassname


Ok, not trying to threaten anyone elses feelings of accomplishment. Let me reword that sentence to say nobody has made enough horsepower to cause catastrophic engine failure due to the increase in cyllinder pressure. I think most people understood that and took it propperly.

With the one comment I highlighted in my previous post, in addition to what you say here, I got an impression that you felt you were treading in HP territory where no one else has been. I was just commenting on that aspect of your post.

[TomsSVX]

that was very informative. I do believe that this kit is as safe as any hp gain is. Just checking though, i love my baby and never want to hurt her.

[longassname]

Originally posted by mbtoloczko


With the one comment I highlighted in my previous post, in addition to what you say here, I got an impression that you felt you were treading in HP territory where no one else has been. I was just commenting on that aspect of your post.

That is correct. I do think I am treading in HP territory where no one else has been in an svx. If you really must compare our first test run with what elninoalex ran please don't try to do so by using et time. Power can not be accurately calculated by et..not even in comparing runs of the same car. Inferences on horsepower are propperly made from changes in trap speed. That's the # I'll be looking at for improvement in after the changes we are making before our next run. Those #'s should for the most part only be used to track differences due to tuning changes on the same car but if you want to compare power output with other cars trap speed is still the # to use. Changes in ET will of course be affected by power output but also include the ability to put that power to the ground and thus are not reliable indicators of hp...not even between runs of the same car. I had some serious difficulties with getting that power to the ground. The changes in et time will mostly reflect improvements in power transfer to the pavement. As we've been discussing in the thread (which lead to all these #'s being thrown around) the trap speed I got in the test run is indicative of the power output I expected from the test run while the et time is both lower than expected and lower than would be expected by the trap speed result. Come on these #'s are from a gtech I'm not going to come on here and say the et is 100% off while the trap speed is 100% on...I wouldn't do that. I don't have the answers yet as to which # from the gtech measurement is off by how much; however, if the fact that the power output was high enough to smoke all 4 of my brand new 225 40 18 pirelli p zero nero m+s tires mounted on 8" wide roh wheels isn't a clear enough indicator to you that it was higher than that of the car you are mentioning you'll just have to take my informed seat of the pants feelings, or wait for the results of future test runs after I get traction worked out, or wait for the results of the dyno tuning, or wait for the results of true 1/4 mile runs at morosso after the dyno tuning to be convinced.

I want to point out for elninoalex that it wasn't me bringing your car into this comparisson and I feel bad about having to mention it repeatedly in this discussion. If you're running low 14's that's awesome--the best that's been done until now (come on now you can resist chiming in about your stripped down 2900 ounce low budget racecar, you know who you are and that it doesn't count in this comparison

[svxhunter]

Originally posted by longassname
Ok we definitely need to stop throwing #'s around here..now I'm even making mistakes. I'm pround mine wasn't the most egregious though

As far as what who may have run in the quarter mile I don't know. I'm not very comfortable with all the unverified #'s being thrown around.

(come on now you can resist chiming in about your stripped down 2900 ounce low budget racecar, you know who you are and that it doesn't count in this comparison

I'm trying to decide if I should be offended. I'm pretty sure you must be referring to me. OK, I've decided not to be.

The verification is in the timeslips, if it matters. They are in my locker. They were timed at the Gainesville Raceway (home of the Gator Nationals). There were several hundred witnesses.

Perhaps you would like to post the timeslips from your G-Tech?

I thought we were having an intelligent discussion about horsepower, 1/4 mile times, trap speeds, and the relation between those. I didn't realize the appearance of my vehicle was relavant to that discussion.

My point was that you are offering a product for sale. So far the return for the investment is still being evaluated. We accomplished the goals you have so far claimed for a great deal less money than you are suggesting.

I have so far been extremely supportive of your efforts. I hope you accomplish what you are setting out to do. I was anticipating being a customer. I don't think the pot shots are neccesary.

Dyno sheets please.

[mbtoloczko]

Originally posted by longassname


That is correct. I do think I am treading in HP territory where no one else has been in an svx. If you really must compare our first test run with what elninoalex ran please don't try to do so by using et time. Power can not be accurately calculated by et..not even in comparing runs of the same car. Inferences on horsepower are propperly made from changes in trap speed. ...

You're basing your belief that you are treading new ground on g-tech measurements which you say yourself may not be accurate. I'm sure that by the time you've got your nitrous kit tuned up, you'll have the best nitrous solution around, but you haven't shown me anything that proves you're treading new ground at this very moment. Show me the dyno chart or the official time slip when its all done and then you can claim your spot at the top of the HP heap. :-)

[longassname]

Originally posted by svxhunter


I'm trying to decide if I should be offended. I'm pretty sure you must be referring to me. OK, I've decided not to be.

The verification is in the timeslips, if it matters. They are in my locker. They were timed at the Gainesville Raceway (home of the Gator Nationals). There were several hundred witnesses.

Perhaps you would like to post the timeslips from your G-Tech?

I thought we were having an intelligent discussion about horsepower, 1/4 mile times, trap speeds, and the relation between those. I didn't realize the appearance of my vehicle was relavant to that discussion.

My point was that you are offering a product for sale. So far the return for the investment is still being evaluated. We accomplished the goals you have so far claimed for a great deal less money than you are suggesting.

I have so far been extremely supportive of your efforts. I hope you accomplish what you are setting out to do. I was anticipating being a customer. I don't think the pot shots are neccesary.

Dyno sheets please.

Easy killer. That wasn't a pop shot It was a joke...for you not at you. It's obvious you can't compare times from a car stipped down 700 lbs to one at full weight plus to judge horsepower...so obvious I thought it was clear I was joking with you. It wasn't meant as the way you took it....my appologies for the ambiguity.

I'm going to admit though...while I have been trying very hard to not offend anyone and only question what people say when it directly missleads someone about something they were asking me.......right this second I'm a little pissed off about having to work so hard at nothing the last couple days. It would be a lot easier for me to not post any #'s at all. I would hate to not be able to share what happens between now and the dyno but if this gets anymore frustrating I'm going to stop posting until after the dyno.

You think I stand to make a lot of money off of this? We'll be lucky to make back our investment into the svx within the next two years. And fyi the small inflow of money from stage 1 and 2 won't even be profit...it will pay for the development of stage 3...then when it's all done the money will start going to recovering our investment and it has a long way to go to accomplish that.

[longassname]

Originally posted by mbtoloczko


You're basing your belief that you are treading new ground on g-tech measurements which you say yourself may not be accurate. I'm sure that by the time you've got your nitrous kit tuned up, you'll have the best nitrous solution around, but you haven't shown me anything that proves you're treading new ground at this very moment. Show me the dyno chart or the official time slip when its all done and then you can claim your spot at the top of the HP heap. :-)

I'm not claiming any spot...I'm giving my honest assessment of things as I explain the tuning process, tell people what I've done, and answer questions.....which I've been doing in the midst of and after twelve hour work days.

[Chicane]

Calm down man. Everyone here is cool, excluding a certain person who attempts to piss me off at every chance he gets.... but seriously, it's just the weather or something. Everyone is just waiting for summer, and we have to sit through this boring kinda cold wet season first. Blech. Once summer is here, the beers are opened, and the cleavage emerges from hibernation, life will again be happy and complete.

- Rob

[Landshark]

Originally posted by Chicane
Calm down man. Everyone here is cool, excluding a certain person who attempts to piss me off at every chance he gets....

- Rob

hi pumpkin!

[oab_au]

Originally posted by Chicane
Calm down man. Everyone here is cool, excluding a certain person who attempts to piss me off at every chance he gets.... but seriously, it's just the weather or something. Everyone is just waiting for summer, and we have to sit through this boring kinda cold wet season first. Blech. Once summer is here, the beers are opened, and the cleavage emerges from hibernation, life will again be happy and complete.

- Rob

Well summed up Rob, could'nt have done better myself.

What Michael needs is an PR man to handle the tyre kickers, while he gets to concertrate on the project.

Stick with it mate we are all pulling for you.
Harvey.

[immortal_suby]

Originally posted by Chicane
Calm down man. Everyone here is cool, excluding a certain person who attempts to piss me off at every chance he gets.... but seriously, it's just the weather or something. Everyone is just waiting for summer, and we have to sit through this boring kinda cold wet season first. Blech. Once summer is here, the beers are opened, and the cleavage emerges from hibernation, life will again be happy and complete.

- Rob

Well put.

[svxhunter]

I apologize if I over reacted.

Hey, I'm curious about something. Why do you say that a trap speed is an accurate expression of HP? It seems to me you can have 900 HP with nothing but wheelspin going all the way down the track and never attain a decent trap speed, or 1/4 mile time. WHP is a measure of torque at the wheels, while trap speed and 1/4 mile times are a measurement of the whole package (hp, traction, vehicle weight, shift points, gearing, shift speeds, torque curve, torque bias, dynamic weight, atmospheric conditions, aerodynamics, driver ability, etc.). While there may be formulas that are relative, and calculations that can offer some info, I'm missing the direct link between trap speed and HP.

[longassname]

Originally posted by svxhunter
I apologize if I over reacted.

Hey, I'm curious about something. Why do you say that a trap speed is an accurate expression of HP? It seems to me you can have 900 HP with nothing but wheelspin going all the way down the track and never attain a decent trap speed, or 1/4 mile time. WHP is a measure of torque at the wheels, while trap speed and 1/4 mile times are a measurement of the whole package (hp, traction, vehicle weight, shift points, gearing, shift speeds, torque curve, torque bias, dynamic weight, atmospheric conditions, aerodynamics, driver ability, etc.). While there may be formulas that are relative, and calculations that can offer some info, I'm missing the direct link between trap speed and HP.

Thank you,

Well I mainly know just because it's trade knowledge. It's not something I figured out on my own. It's an industry standard to use trap speed to compare power output and measure the effects of changes made to tuning. It's just a matter of measurement error. If you spin your tires for a second at launch your et is greatly effected but your ability to accelerate to a certain speed over that 1/4 mile distance is not. If you were to actually spin your tires all the way down the track then trap speed wouldn't be a good indicator of power either but that doesn't happen in practice--you cover a negligable distance while spinning your tires then hook up and accelerate over what is for all practical purposes an accurate 1/4 mile distance.

[SVXRide]

Does everyone realize that the time Michael is spending typing responses to posts is time NOT spent getting his SVX on the chassis dyno?
My vote is for more pictures of the mods he's done (outstanding to date!) and dyno sheets!!!
Keep up the great work, Michael!!
-Bill

DRIVE THE CAR TO TAMPA! PUT IT ON THE DYNAPACK AT MASTRO!

Either that, or bring it here and we'll dyno it at the shop here in ATL.

You'll never be able to tune the ECM properly without a dyno and a good wideband A/F sensor. PERIOD.