SVX Network Forums Live Chat! SVX or Subaru Links Old Lockers Photo Post How-To Documents Message Archive SVX Shop Search |
IRC users: |
#1
|
||||
|
||||
6-spd conversion vs. 5-spd?
Plz lock and redirect if this has been asked but:
What are the differences between doing a 5-spd and 6-spd conversion; and, Can someone submit a nice in-depth set to SVXipedia? I'm considering the swap, and I'd like to go for the 6MT instead of the 5MT. I'd like to know what technical and build differences I'm going to encounter should I choose to accept this mission. (This isn't a money-is-no-object project, but I will keep re calculating the financial position as we go.) Is there a final drive ratio conversion for this? (Excuse my ignorance if not!). Should we be looking for a lighter rear driveshaft or flywheel or anything crazy, or will dropping the tranny in as per 5MT going to be no trouble? What other ease-of-use mods are useful on this type of setup (can you wire the internal neutral circuit as per http://www.subaru-svx.net/forum/showthread.php?t=26596 for instance?)? Driveability and reliability are my primary concerns. Obviously an SVX that is continually stalling like a mongrel, or that continually spits clutch bearings out is no good. The goal: I'm looking to do the brakes first, and then the tranny, suspension and exhaust at around the same time. I may then consider the ECUTune Stage III S/C, depending on how this all works out. Subafreak seems to be the man on the spot here , as he has the advantage of "been there done that". I've seen lovely cradles being built and so on, but unfortunately aquiring anything from the states is not an easy task - I'm in Australia and for the most part I'll be stuck to getting the instructions, measurements and super-explicit instructions from my bretheren in the US and forwarding them on to others to build for me if required. Input is welcomed, and if everyone gets energetic and starts co-writing a huge technical book, I'll pay my US$49.95 to get one if it's published. Cheers, McTaff PS. My baby is a '92 Black on Pearl White. She enjoys long drives, high octane fuels and social outings with her younger brother, my '93 Black on Gun Metal Grey.
__________________
'07 Outback (Legacy) Pearl White > 3.0R Premium, stock (50,000km, Wifes daily driver. Owned from new) Not For Sale '92 SVX Black on Pearl White > 6spd, DCCD on the way. (260,000km, My daily driver, 2 previous owners) Not For Sale '93 SVX Black on Charcoal > Aftermarket rims.(250,000 km, Dad's daily driver, unknown owners) Not For Sale '93 SVX Black on Burgundy > Completely stock, under preservation, treated like a princess. (55,000km, 1 previous owner) Not For Sale '92 SVX Black on Burgundy > Completely stock, under preservation, treated like a princess. (144,000km, 2 previous owners) Not For Sale Wife, Red Hot when riled > Treated like a princess. Minister For Finance, Domestic Affairs and Diplomatic Relations. Definitely Not For Sale My Wanted List: http://www.subaru-svx.net/forum/show...178#post632178 |
#2
|
||||
|
||||
There's quite a bit of info on the network, but its dispersed among many threads. There are a couple options for the 6MT swap.
Option 1: 6MT (incl clutch slave cyl, throwout bearing, and front stub axles) 5MT/6MT clutch & flywheel (incl pilot bearing) 5MT/6MT clutch master cylinder 6MT shift linkage 6MT starter (USDM WRX starter will also work) 6MT tranny mount 5MT/6MT pedal assembly custom rear cross member R160 3.90 ring and pinion to install in SVX rear diff Option 2: same as Option 1 except... use R180 rear diff instead of R160 3.90 ring and pinion 6MT front half shafts 6MT rear half shafts Option 2 provides a stronger rear diff. (The SVX half-shafts are already pretty strong). Unless you are pushing really big HP, option 2 isn't really necessary. Even then, its not absolutely necessary. The biggest advantage of option 2 is that the LSD in the R180 has a stronger coupling. There are several different 6MTs available: 1) JDM 6MT with DCCD center diff and Suretrac front diff. These are expensive and a DCCD controller is needed which adds another $800 or more to the cost. The DCCD can only operate in manual mode which isn't so great. 2) JDM 6MT with viscous center diff and Suretrac front diff. Probably the best option, but these are difficult to come by. They were only installed on a few MYs. 3) JDM 6MT with viscous center diff and open front diff. Very common, so not too expensive. Open front diff is not so performance-oriented. 4) USDM 6MT. These are all DCCD with a Suretrac or helical front LSD. DCCD controller needed. Different gear ratios than JDM 6MT. I'll let someone else fill in the details on the 5MT swap and add corrections to my 6MT swap.
__________________
Mychailo :: 2006 Silver Mitsubishi Evolution 9, E85, 34 psi peak, 425wtq/505whp DJ :: 1995 Laguna Blue SVX L AWD 5MT (sold) Visit my locker SVX Mods: ND iridium spark plugs, Impreza RS fpr, afr tuned to 13.2:1 using a custom MAF bypass, custom exhaust, WRX 5MT w/ STi RA 1st-4th gear & stock WRX 5th gear, Exedy 13 lb flywheel & Sport Clutch, STi Group N tranny & engine mounts, urethane spacers in rear subframe, rear diff mounts, and pitch stopper, SVX Sport Strut Springs (185f/150r), custom 19 mm rear swaybar, urethane swaybar mounts, Rota Torque 17x8", 225/45-17 Proxes 4 tires, Axxis Deluxe Plus organic brake pads. |
#3
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
Any ideas on what the breakdowns of the model/years for each of the JDM vehicles? (1 -> 3 you listed here?) And what is the deal with the controller and manual mode only? (Is there a glossary of terms somewhere for this site? I run into so many acronyms here that I nearly have anuerisms reading it )
__________________
'07 Outback (Legacy) Pearl White > 3.0R Premium, stock (50,000km, Wifes daily driver. Owned from new) Not For Sale '92 SVX Black on Pearl White > 6spd, DCCD on the way. (260,000km, My daily driver, 2 previous owners) Not For Sale '93 SVX Black on Charcoal > Aftermarket rims.(250,000 km, Dad's daily driver, unknown owners) Not For Sale '93 SVX Black on Burgundy > Completely stock, under preservation, treated like a princess. (55,000km, 1 previous owner) Not For Sale '92 SVX Black on Burgundy > Completely stock, under preservation, treated like a princess. (144,000km, 2 previous owners) Not For Sale Wife, Red Hot when riled > Treated like a princess. Minister For Finance, Domestic Affairs and Diplomatic Relations. Definitely Not For Sale My Wanted List: http://www.subaru-svx.net/forum/show...178#post632178 |
#4
|
|||
|
|||
Dccd
mbtoloczko , whats the torque split if you don't use a DCCD controler in the USDM 6 speed. i have the 6-speed but no controler yet. thanks
|
#5
|
||||
|
||||
Here's a chart that shows which MYs had which tranny:
http://www.rallispec.com/Transmission%20chart.htm The controller can only operate in manual mode because there are some sensors that are absent from the SVX that the controller needs to operate in automatic mode. No one that I know of has been able to make a DCCD controller work in auto mode in a car that did not originally have the DCCD controller. With no controller, the center clutch on a DCCD tranny is wide open (no LSD action), so the torque split is 36/64.
__________________
Mychailo :: 2006 Silver Mitsubishi Evolution 9, E85, 34 psi peak, 425wtq/505whp DJ :: 1995 Laguna Blue SVX L AWD 5MT (sold) Visit my locker SVX Mods: ND iridium spark plugs, Impreza RS fpr, afr tuned to 13.2:1 using a custom MAF bypass, custom exhaust, WRX 5MT w/ STi RA 1st-4th gear & stock WRX 5th gear, Exedy 13 lb flywheel & Sport Clutch, STi Group N tranny & engine mounts, urethane spacers in rear subframe, rear diff mounts, and pitch stopper, SVX Sport Strut Springs (185f/150r), custom 19 mm rear swaybar, urethane swaybar mounts, Rota Torque 17x8", 225/45-17 Proxes 4 tires, Axxis Deluxe Plus organic brake pads. |
#6
|
||||
|
||||
The six speed is stronger and slower in the 1/4mile becouse you shift alot. And it tops out around 130mph.
Not feeling real technical right now.
__________________
92 SVX #772 140k 6speed, ECU Tune stage II, Koni/Ground control, 3,270lbs. 91 Legacy Turbo 5spd. FMIC, crappy stock turbo, ACT clutch. 78 BRAT (New toy) (Soon to be EJ22T powered) 90 240 SX. RB25 powered!! DRIFT!!!111!!! (GF's car) To many cars to spend time on teh web! |
#7
|
|||
|
|||
Ts
thanks for the reply. is that torque split 36/64
36 front 64 rear or the reverse? thanks |
#8
|
||||
|
||||
36 front/64 rear
__________________
Mychailo :: 2006 Silver Mitsubishi Evolution 9, E85, 34 psi peak, 425wtq/505whp DJ :: 1995 Laguna Blue SVX L AWD 5MT (sold) Visit my locker SVX Mods: ND iridium spark plugs, Impreza RS fpr, afr tuned to 13.2:1 using a custom MAF bypass, custom exhaust, WRX 5MT w/ STi RA 1st-4th gear & stock WRX 5th gear, Exedy 13 lb flywheel & Sport Clutch, STi Group N tranny & engine mounts, urethane spacers in rear subframe, rear diff mounts, and pitch stopper, SVX Sport Strut Springs (185f/150r), custom 19 mm rear swaybar, urethane swaybar mounts, Rota Torque 17x8", 225/45-17 Proxes 4 tires, Axxis Deluxe Plus organic brake pads. |
#9
|
|||
|
|||
so a 5sp is faster? wow never would have thought that
__________________
-Chris '94 ebony pearl, with orange "silicone" hoses, painted beauty cover, Tom's Intake, Dayles Cold air intake; with HKS mega suction foam air filter, 3in header back exhaust, STI ground wires, euro front fascia, euro front grill, reactive 17in wheels, Nitto Invo's, Drilled and slotted rotors, stainless break lines, Koni strut inserts, Drop springs, 5MT, shotshifter, Clutchmasters clutch, ACT prolite flywheel, EL Glow gauges, The ECUTune stage 2. To Do: Cams, port and polish, etc. |
#10
|
||||
|
||||
But its not stronger. The 6MT also weighs about 100 lbs more than a 5MT. Another reason why the 5MT is faster.
__________________
Mychailo :: 2006 Silver Mitsubishi Evolution 9, E85, 34 psi peak, 425wtq/505whp DJ :: 1995 Laguna Blue SVX L AWD 5MT (sold) Visit my locker SVX Mods: ND iridium spark plugs, Impreza RS fpr, afr tuned to 13.2:1 using a custom MAF bypass, custom exhaust, WRX 5MT w/ STi RA 1st-4th gear & stock WRX 5th gear, Exedy 13 lb flywheel & Sport Clutch, STi Group N tranny & engine mounts, urethane spacers in rear subframe, rear diff mounts, and pitch stopper, SVX Sport Strut Springs (185f/150r), custom 19 mm rear swaybar, urethane swaybar mounts, Rota Torque 17x8", 225/45-17 Proxes 4 tires, Axxis Deluxe Plus organic brake pads. |
#11
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
(sorry...had to do it once)
__________________
David B. SVXipedia @ SVX-IW.COM -- SVX Information Warehouse 2.0 coming...eventually! Ebony 1992 SVX LS-L 5 spd Koni/GC Stebro 187k miles RIP (Rust In Pieces) 1993 SVX 5 spd Koni/GC Stebro Polyurethane bushings still available! |
#12
|
||||
|
||||
the 5mt is more practical and has a couple different final drive ratie options. For someone who is looking to enjoy the speed of a naturally aspiratd engine or some mild mods, the 5mt is great. It turns some great times in the 1/4 mile and tops out around 145(i haven't done it so im lost on if thats right) The availability of the 5mt is probobly it's biggest plus, not to mention that 2 5mt's are cheaper than 1 6mt(I keep a spare trans in the garage )
On the other hand, the 6mt is more for big power applications. It is the strongest mt that suby ever came out with and will be a nice fit in the SVX. I have heard that the shifting can get to you quickly and the top speed and highway rev's are not too practical. If you are looking to run the stage 3 S/C I would suggest the 6mt. If you are looking for a fun car to drive around with some kick and play at track also the 5mt is probobly your best bet. Either way the mt in the SVX is a joy for me and many of the other owners who have them. Tom |
#13
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
Well put.
__________________
92 SVX #772 140k 6speed, ECU Tune stage II, Koni/Ground control, 3,270lbs. 91 Legacy Turbo 5spd. FMIC, crappy stock turbo, ACT clutch. 78 BRAT (New toy) (Soon to be EJ22T powered) 90 240 SX. RB25 powered!! DRIFT!!!111!!! (GF's car) To many cars to spend time on teh web! |
#14
|
||||
|
||||
For those running the 5mt, how much would you say it changes the GT nature of the SVX in comparison to the auto.
Jesse can sit this one out as I have seen his car, and cool as it is, other changes he has made kill the GT aspect of it reguardless
__________________
1992 Liquid Silver LS-L (Sold-5/16/13) 1997 Spruce Pearl Outback (Sold) 2006 B9 Tribeca |
#15
|
||||
|
||||
my suspension is bone stock, infact my struts are shot. My car still sticks to the road but seems to flop around. Anyway, I love the drivabilityof this car and it's comfort is unsurpassed by any other car I have driven. I think it is a sports car now since it does perform very well but still has it's gt atributes
Tom |
|
|