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  #1  
Old 10-20-2003, 03:41 AM
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Cam belt query from Trevor.

As I no longer derive pleasure from wielding a spanner (Wrench) within the depths of a motor car, having become too old and one eyed, I am entrusting my SVX to a small local workshop to replace the timing belt. The shop has done work for before and they make the right noises in response to technical queries and I have faith in them.

Firstly I should make it clear that the average Kiwi mechanic knows his job, does good work and values goodwill. A job is fully guaranteed and responsibility accepted. That said the odd cowboy does exist.

The immediate reaction was, to be honest we have not previously done a timing belt job on an SVX but have I have lost count regarding legacies as we have done so many. We will not change a belt on a legacy unless we replace the water pump, the tensioner and all idler pulley bearings as part of the job. (Replacement of seals he did not regard as essential.) It is our policy to make sure a job is done once and only once. We guarantee what we do and do not expect a cam belt job to last less than a further 100 Kms.

On the basis of what I have read here I agreed 100% regarding the water pump but queried the idler pulley and tensioner issue. The reply was we will at your request not replace the idlers and tensioner but will endorse the invoice to the effect that our guarantee does not include any failures due to these components. We strongly recommend that you replace the hydraulically damped tensioner. Due to remaining in one position for lengthy periods they tend rust in the internals and seize. The guy had an SVX manual to refer to and obviously new Subarus.

What has been the experience here ? Is the SVX a different animal in respect of the idlers and tensioner when compared with the Legacy ? Just what should I replace, cost and all things considered ?

Input from those with experience in the subject would be very much appreciated.

Thanks in anticipation, Trevor *<)
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  #2  
Old 10-20-2003, 04:56 AM
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Hello Trevor

I've had the idlers replaced once by an astute shop who didn't like the way they felt. I did not replace them the last time I changed the belt. I would agree with the water pump replacement. Easy to do at that point. I've yet to replace the tensioner on mine. The car has lived it's life exclusively in the rust belt here in the US. Roads are typically de-thawed in winter time with salt. Summer '02 when I replaced the head gaskets, I depressed the tensioner to remove it from the bolck while tearing down the engine and saw no evidence of corrosion. He's wise to be concerned about it failing, but I don't think it's required.

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Todd
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  #3  
Old 10-20-2003, 05:55 AM
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Cam seals and crank seals I would do if you got more than 5 yrs or 100k miles. I think they would not last another 60k miles and leaking all that oil out the front of engine is not really good because it gets all over everything else behined the engine. Water pump is a do also. I have found the idlers, sprockets and rollers, for the T-belt to be okay. They sounded fine when giving them a spin and do not have clicks in them. I have not seen rust on the hydraulic tensioner. I the ones I have seen in USA, it is coated with some type of corrosion protection. This is apparent from the shiny finish on the part. The tension also looks very similar to the ones I have seen in the 2.2L engine. Take care.
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Old 10-20-2003, 10:53 AM
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I wouldn't think that a tensioner is very likely to wear or rust the way that the recommend, but then I haven't exactly had the amount of experience that they have.

My idlers and tensioner felt fine when I replaced my timing belt, but (now that I think about it) I haven't looked to see if they were replaced with the first timing belt change under the previous owner of the car...

If you trust your shop, then just keep trusting them. Look at it this way: you can't do the car by wrong replacing these parts.
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  #5  
Old 10-20-2003, 09:34 PM
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If you are above 70k miles or if it has been 50k miles since the last time your seals were replaced, I would recommend replacing them proactively. Seals are cheap and labor is expensive, and it doesn't really cost anything significantly extra to throw a few seals in while they have it apart. I see a large number of EJ22 and EJ25 motors with leaking seals in the 70k-90k mileage range. The SVX is not immune to this malady, my seals are leaking as we speak..

I would recommend replacing the tensioner, I have seen many of them go on Legacy and Impreza motors and the design is essentially the same. As they begin to wear and fail they make a noise that is easily mistaken for rod knock. I have also seen a number of them lose compression, causing the belt to begin walking.

As for the idlers, it is only common practice to replace them if they exhibit some type of wear or free play. If your shop doesn't charge an arm and a leg it might be worth doing merely as a "peace of mind" repair.
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Old 10-21-2003, 12:32 AM
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Thank you Porter much appreciated.

What you say eaclty confirms my own opinion.

Or should I say --- Great you bloody old mate you are spot on. The greasy buggers do savvy eh ?! Had to make real shure they were not trying to sort of rip me off and shove stuff into the old bomb it didn't Kneed. Bloody hell that would piss a man off. Good to no I have me head on strait. Buggers got to be shore on that one. Whatcha think mate ?

The above is NOT intended to be sarcastic but sort of oily humour on troubled waters. ( **** there I go again ) Those don't no wot i am yackin about, forget it. Am i gettin toyah ??

Cheers, etc. Trevor
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Last edited by Trevor; 10-21-2003 at 01:48 AM.
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Old 10-21-2003, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Trevor
Thank you Porter much appreciated.

What you say eaclty confirms my own opinion.

Or should I say --- Great you bloody old mate you are spot on. The greasy buggers do savvy eh ?! Had to make real shure they were not trying to sort of rip me off and shove stuff into the old bomb it didn't Kneed. Bloody hell that would piss a man off. Good to no I have me head on strait. Buggers got to be shore on that one. Whatcha think mate ?

The above is NOT intended to be sarcastic but sort of oily humour on troubled waters. ( **** there I go again ) Those don't no wot i am yackin about, forget it. Am i gettin toyah ??

Cheers, etc. Trevor
Well said! All arguments aside, I still think we'd enjoy a beer if we're ever in the same hemisphere.
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Old 10-22-2003, 07:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Porter
............
I would recommend replacing the tensioner, I have seen many of them go on Legacy and Impreza motors and the design is essentially the same. As they begin to wear and fail they make a noise that is easily mistaken for rod knock. I have also seen a number of them lose compression, causing the belt to begin walking. ....................
I think I may have that noise in my SVX and I have heard it other SVX's. Oh crap. How the heck can it wear enough to cause noise? I assume that the tensioner shaft is moving in and out to cause this??????? The tensioner is w e a k ?
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Old 10-22-2003, 02:47 PM
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Thanks a lot guys, much appreciated.

Please keep the comments coming particularly from those who may have replaced worn parts as are covered here and can estimate their useful life. I am sure all information collected will be of interest and use to many members as well as myself.
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  #10  
Old 10-23-2003, 09:16 AM
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Why now???

I read every post I could find on the subject before I tore my car apart and replaced everything from the water pump to the little o-ring in the oil-pump.

Never did anyone mention replacing the tensioner. How often do they really go bad?

It took a hell of alot of pressure to compress mine far enough to put a pin in it for reinstalling it. Hopefully it lasts until the next belt change.

I think it should be a major point of telling people to do this if it is really that common a failure. I would hate to think I had it that far apart and missed somthing that simple.

Also want to give out a THANK YOU to SVX-Commuter and Mr Pockets for answering a few of my questions along the way.

Ryan
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  #11  
Old 10-23-2003, 10:54 AM
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Re: Why now???

Quote:
Originally posted by rcraven32
I............Never did anyone mention replacing the tensioner. How often do they really go bad?........................Ryan
Yes that is the question, how often and what does it sound like or do before it's bad. This is the first also I have heard of this. I have reused the tensioner on 3 of my cars at least twice. The noise "like a rod knock" I can only hear at IDLE. It is sort of an off beat "thump". The 2.2L 91 Legacy I have makes a similar sound and it's been doing that for 4 years now. The noise in the SVX I think has been there for 2 years. Heck I have dragged raced the SVX and time trialed it with that noise. I would sure like to get a tensioner and hear it go away. Some more experience from others would be appreciated.

I am thinking that because it takes so long to compress the tensioner it would be easy to break, if one is in a rush or the dealers just don't want to take 20 minutes to compress it.
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  #12  
Old 10-23-2003, 02:47 PM
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As I see it the real danger is that the tensioner could seize and not continue to adjust and hold the required tension on the belt. As a result the drive could slip a tooth or two, or worse still strip the belt.

Has anyone had this happen ?
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  #13  
Old 10-24-2003, 11:18 AM
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My timing belt had jumped about 10 teeth at 155 k miles, the exact cause still unknown, the tensioner checked out OK - no
rust, compressed slowly and with sufficient force.
Approximately a month before that engine started developing a loud knock when cold, but would go away during warm-up.
Knock was getting stronger and lasting longer, until one day
the car refused to start.

All I did was to put back the belt back in its place. The old belt, the old tensioner. The knocks ended after I changed oil (I guess bad oil batch - was only 2.5k miles on the old oil). 10k miles later
still going without any noticeable ill effects.
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Old 10-24-2003, 03:37 PM
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Thanks gl1647,

It would appear that the knock was very likely the tensioner and by compressing it and checking it you may have freed it up.

The crux of the matter is whether the noise was still there after the belt was placed back on track and only disappeared after the oil change. Even so this could have been coincidental.

Here we have another worthwhile experience to add to the useful evidence on the issue.
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  #15  
Old 10-24-2003, 08:45 PM
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Trevor,

Well, that would be a reasonable assumption, however
a) Immediately after belt replacement some noise was there. It went away after engine flush & oil change and couple days of driving.

b) It would be too much noise for a single belt tensioner. It was very very loud (not your typical lifter noise) and the source of the sound was close to the center of the engine (I tried locating it with a stethoscope, but without much luck). Sounded like if you took an aluminium spoon and hit engine with it, but did it very hard. Piston slap in all 6 cylinders?
The sound would gradually go away as engine warmed up so the stuck piston rings due to bad oil would be a more realistic explanation.

Oh well the bad oil does not explain why the belt jumped and how it could have jumped without damaging itself. Seized camshaft could have caused it to jump, but it should have done some damage somewhere...

For your dilemma I would go with original tensioner if it is not rusty - 100km is not enough mileage :-). Besides it's only 3-4 hours to put the belt back in place if it ever jumps :-).

Water pump is a must though.
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