What's "Liberal" and "Liberalism"?

[NapaBavarian]

either I'm right or I'm not worth arguing with

yup.... no sense of humour at all...

[TheRightWingSVX]

Originally Posted by Electrophil

Bipa, I really don't think therightwingsvx will venture down here. His only purpose on this forum is to sell moth ball pills. He has no other purpose, and only the opinions others have given him. That's why I haven't really been paying any attention to him.

I "do" feel he's going after the right market by calling himself rightwing. In the last few years they've shown themselves to be a little more gullible than the rest of us.

Well I am here now so off with the gloves shall we j/k ! I understand that liberalism as defined by the dictionary is different from what I was refering to in that post. I could try and tell you what I believe it means as I was refering to it, but instead I will refer to another word that is used so much these days that meant something different less than 100 years ago.

That word is DEMOCRACY. This word was not used to describe the government of the UNited States until about 1917 when President Woodrow Wilson used it in a speech, "The World must be safe for Democracy..." of course refering to World War I. However before that we were considered a Republic and or government that of Republicanism.

Here is what our first President had to say, "republicanism is not the phantom of a deluded imagination: on the contrary, that under no form of government , will laws be better supported, liberty and property better secured, or happiness be more effectually dispensed to mankind." (George Washington to Edmund Pendleton, Jan 22, 1795, Writing Vol 34 p.99)

U.S. Army Definition of Democracy, 1928: A government of the masses. Authority derived through mass meeting or any other form of "direct" expression. Results in mobocracy. Attitude toward property is communistic-negating property rights. Attitude toward law is that the will of the majority shall regulate , whether it be based upon deliberation or governed by passion, prejudice, and impulse, without restraint or regard to consequences. Results in demagogism, license, agitation, discontent, anarchy. (United States Army Training Manual No. 2000-25, 1928, p.91.

Then 24 years later it changed:
U.S. Army Definition of Democracy, 1952: Meaning of Democracy: Because the United States is a democracy, the majority of the people decide how our government will be organized and run-and that includes the Army, Navy, and Air Force. The people do this by electing representatives, and these men and women then carry out the wishes of the people. (The Soldiers Guide, Department of the Army Field Manual, FM 21-23, June 1952, p.69)

During the Revolutionary War our Founding Fathers were considerd to be liberals. Our founding fathers would be considerd to be Neo Conservatives or Right Wing Extremists by todays liberals.

Here is what the Father of our Constitution, James Madison, offered as a definition for Republic:
"We may define a republic to be...a government which derives all its powers directly or indirectly from the great body the people, and is administered by persons holding their offices during pleasure for a limited period, or during good behavior. It is essential to such government that it be derived from the great body of the society, not from an inconsiderable portion or a favored class of it; otherwise a handful of tyrannical nobels, excersising their oppressions by a delegation of their powers, might aspire to the rank of republicans and claim for their government the honorable title of republic."

And of DEMOCRACY he said this:
Deocracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention: have ever been found incompatible with personal security, or the rights of property; and have in general been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths...A republic, by which the scheme of representation takes place, opens a defferent prospect the cure for which we are seeking."

Samuel Adams said:
"Remember, Democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts and murders itself: There never was a democracy that did not commit suicide."

Thomas Babington Macaulay said this:
"I have long been convinced that institutions purely democratic must, sooner or later, destroy liberty or civilization, or both."

So why are we trying to create a Democracy in Iraq . The answer is we have learned nothing from history.

[Electrophil]

You've ventured out! I noticed that a couple of days ago, but it's just now sinking in.

Welcome to the pit! And your last post shows you as a moderate, not a right winger.. What's up?

[TheRightWingSVX]

Well I guess I would consider myseld an Independent Conservative. I don't believe that just cause someone is a Republican theya re right! The laundry list of "Not so Republican"(at least in the Reagan sense) Republican is growing all the time. I am registered Republican so that I can vote in the primary, because I usually end up voting for the republican(would not always be the case, however if Sen. Chuck Hagel (Republican) makes it through the Republican Primary in '08 I will vote for the Democrat !). Otherwise I would be registered Constitution Party, which in Nebraska is the Nebraska Party.

TheRightWingSVX,

Well...howdy and welcome to my favourite neck o' the woods! From the sound of your post, the rest of the world should just relax, kick back with a cool drink, and watch the US self-destruct.

I'm not sure I really like that version of the future any more than the opposite, "US takes over the world" picture that so many folks are bemoaning lately. Just think of all the refugees that Canada and Mexico would have to deal with!

We'd have to finally get serious and plug up those borders


Looking forward to someone new around here. Hope you stick around!

[TheRightWingSVX]

Well I am optomistic that there is hope yet in our country. The resent port-gate story is a testament to that. Once America found out that our government was actually selling the management of our sea ports to companies owned by foreign governments, we all called our congressmen and said "Hold Up, are we gonna sell management of our southern border entry points to the Mexican government!?" Next thing we knew congress had actually listened to the people that they represent! Even the national media could not believe their ears. CNN ABC all of them had similiar polls that asked, "Are you stunned that congress listened to the American people?"

So I believe that there is still hope.

P.S. It sounds like some of you might enjoy the Michael Savage show? If you want to here someone who is Independent and cool-aid free, then you should check out his raido show, see what you think. Here is a link to different radio websites that stream his show:
http://radio.findanisp.com/radio-show.php?showid=328

It will make for good discussion here if you guys listen to Savage, I will say that much.

[Electrophil]

Isn't Savage that guy that thinks the WTC was a US conspiracy?

[TheRightWingSVX]

If by WTC you mean 9-11, no he does not.

[Royal Tiger]

Here's one for the other side:

[TheRightWingSVX]

If you don't know who Savage is here is his website: www.michaelsavage.com

[TheRightWingSVX]

That is pretty funny tiger!

[Electrophil]

Originally Posted by TheRightWingSVX

If by WTC you mean 9-11, no he does not.

Welll.....

First off: Welcome! Glad to see you pulling up a seat with the rest of us deviants.

Second: You are full of ka-ka.

I just went to his site to find out who he is and the first thing I see is a huge ad saying "wear the stuff liberals hate." Now that don't sound too "independent" to me. The guy has tree hugger degrees, spent decades wondering around the rainforests looking at the "pretty flowers", and then puts up a "Right of Rush" neo-conservative front?

This guy doesn't need to be talking on the air, what he needs to do is take his medicine. He has no idea who he is.

[Electrophil]

Originally Posted by Tigershark

Here's one for the other side:

Hilarious!

[TheRightWingSVX]

Just give it a listen tonight, see what ya think. If you don't like then thats ok, but give it at least one time before you go saying that. He is Independent, and if you want to hear someone get mad at Bush then listen tonight.