Installling Engine: Flex Plate to Torque Converter

James Scott · #1 06-25-2013, 02:57 PM

I attempted to install my "new" (Nate partial rebuild low mileage) engine.. I torqued 4 engine bolts.. Tried to align flex plate bolt holes with TC threaded holes for 4 bolts.. Wouldn't move at interface.. Tried to turn engine at crank pulley bolt.. WOULDN'T BUDGE @ 123 ft-lbs!

Nate says the TC wasn't seated, but can't give further explanation on HOW to seat properly??

Anyone able to explain wat I did wrong.. or more importantly.. HOW to remove/replace engine successfully? I don't look forward to the removal/installation a second time, but REALLY don't wanna end up with the frozen engine. Of course, I'm also worried I damaged the AT!

Well.. I just talked to Tom by phone.. so got some idea how to seat.. and about 1/8" of 1/4" TC tabs (where threaded holes ) must protrude out of Bell Housing only.. PLUS, I seem to NOT have the 2 lateral guide posts (??)

Thanks, Jim

Stevebsy · #2 06-27-2013, 10:17 AM

Ooof!
I did the same thing on my first transmission adventure. When I tightened the engine to trans bolts I heard a rather loud boom from within the trans. At the time I just thought it was binding on the guide pins or something.

But no...The TC was sticking out too far and I pushed it in so hard that it broke the pump.

I hope that's not what happened to you. Take the TC out and look down in the trans. It's not easy but I think you can see if you've broken anything.

To seat the TC just push on it with hand pressure and keep turning it around and around. It will eventually drop in to the proper height as Tom described to you, but it takes a while sometimes.

Your engine is fine, but the trans may be damaged

. The TC should be able to be spun around by hand through the little window or from underneath when the engine/trans are bolted up together.

Stevebsy · #3 06-27-2013, 10:18 AM

Oh also, you need to get those guide pins in there. Sometimes they stick in the engine, sometimes the trans, but they are important to have.

James Scott · #4 06-27-2013, 11:51 AM

THANKS!
I checked .. and have only one guide pin! So, engine slightly lopsided.. Hmmm? I got some bolts to make one out of (can't locate anywhere) .. when I remove and install engine again.

Fortunately, I dint hear a clunk.. but still worried/pissed about this situation.
Tom said I may not have damaged the pump (???) .. But, having the engine not be able to turn.. means there was some major innappropriate pressure placed on the TC (AND SHAFT)! Verty likely damaged.. if not broken!

I'm not sure.. why my "mentor" dint warn me of this possible scenario? But he thinks he dint need to.. cuz this is "common sense"! .. ???

Evidently, it's not just ME.. We both don't have any common sense! Hmmm?

Thanks again.. Jim

James Scott · #5 06-27-2013, 01:56 PM

What happened with your AT?
Did you fix it? How much did it cost?
Did you have to replace your AT? How much?

Stevebsy · #6 06-27-2013, 02:26 PM

I made that mistake way back in like 2001 or something, when we were all just young kiddies and this forum had hardly been open very long, so the knowledge base was not nearly what it is now.

And it was a Level Ten transmission I did this to! Thankfully they fixed it for me for just the cost of the parts and shipping. I managed to screw up the second install by not filling the TC with ATF too, and blew out the seal on the TC, but that was easily replaced.

If you didn't hear any boom/pop noises, and you couldn't turn the engine, then you might be lucky in that you didn't break anything, hard to say and I'm not sure how you can check other than visually. You would need to reseat the TC and spin it up to idle speed to see if any oil comes out the cooler lines, which would verify that the pump is working.

James Scott · #7 07-01-2013, 04:37 PM

I was able to seat TC fully Friday nite.. add missing guide pin.. and install engine. Will try to start tonight.. WISH ME LUCK (PrAy) with the AT!

Tom said the seating of the TC is three-stage. I think he meant:
1. Insert TC to rear of spline..
2. Push/turn till clunk .. (I think this is where my TC was when I bolted)
3. Push/turn till second clunk .. SEATED! (1/8" inside/1/8" outside AT mounting surface (bell housing?)

Maybe yours was installed after just sliding on spline?? Hope so.. that would explain yours breaking oil pump.. ?

Maybe mine will be OK? .. But I can't imagine how one could bolt the whole rigid system together .. with about 5/16 too much protruded.. without hurting something badly! Yikes!

Thanks, Jim

scoobydrvr · #8 07-02-2013, 07:13 AM

Sad to read this thread... I did the same thing with one of my Legacys with the same aforementioned bang once I bolted the transmission down. Dad told me "Be sure you get the TC completely seated" but didn't describe what that meant. Ended up shattering the pump; had to replace it. Something I noticed in my 4.44 swap: the input shaft for the TQ from the SVX is not exactly the same as the one out of the donor car and it wouldn't allow the TQ to seat completely (see image below for comparison, top input shaft was from the 4.44 transmission, bottom was for the SVX). Our assumption was that the donor car had a slightly different TQ that has a pocket for the stub at the end. Ended up using the TQ and input shaft out of the SVX in the 4.44 transmission.

Alllll that to say, I hope you were able to get lucky and didn't break anything!

James Scott · #9 07-03-2013, 01:42 PM

I really wish I was told about this during installation! I made it clear.. I'm a "novice".. not a mechanic.. when getting installation steps.. Hmmm?

WELL! .. I drove my car.. new "rebuilt" engine.. wudn't start 15 min later.. Acted like out of gas! Noticed no Fuel Pump buzz then! Popped fuel delivery line off engine.. NO GAS PRESSURE! Yikes.. Gotta fuel pump yesterday.. Gotta put it in first..

The SVX is not driving right, but don't know what the "TC/SHAFT JAM" would do to the AT function.. if it damaged it, but dint destroy the oil pump like you both did??? Goes forward..and Reverse.. BUT, ReAlLy WeIrD turning corners! There's a VERY noticeable wobble (like axles SHOT, but they're NOT) when turning corners.. ??? Could this be an AT malfunction resulting from the "TC/SHAFT JAM" .. AAAHHHhhhhhhh!!!

Thanks, Jim

P.S. I also had speedometer partial malfunction (works on/off?) .. on my short test drive. Can't remember what drives it? Could that be AT malfunction?? (Told ya I'm a novice [actually senile])

Crash_Bandit · #10 07-03-2013, 02:22 PM

I wonder if my situation matches your "wobble"? I am a novice too so I'm just hoping to pass on what little I have picked up so far.

I did my first transmission install a few months ago myself and had a bear of a time before getting the TC to seat right. Ever since, my car has a noticeable rattle/shake coming from the transmission when I start moving from a full start. If I ease into motion gently, its just a minor rattle, but if I give it some gas it can build into a very noticeable shake that will last 2-4 seconds and feels to be coming from the front of the tranmission area. If I am turning (either way) it is a little worse. Once I am moving it completely goes away until the next time I stop. So stop signs are annoying right now. The rattle/shake does not really change by speed, more a factor of acceleration. A gentle start and I might not hear anything. A quick launch and it can sound and feel scary. It hasn't changed at all since the install so it isn't getting better or worse (I originally thought it might be binding because I first felt it while turning).

The rattle noise is most likely from the spot where the exhaust "Y" is bolted on to the 2 metal clips hanging under the transmission. Mine were badly bent so I left it loose and I just haven't had a good opportunity to see what it will take to fix. The more worrying part for me is if something is wrong with the front differential. I replaced both front axles (they had torn CV boots) and the rattle/shake didn't change. Could there be something wrong with just first gear because it completely goes away once the car has moved more than 10-20 feet.

Finally, double check the electrical connectors to the transmission and speed sensor. I didn't check for the "click" feeling on one and even though it looked good, it did all kinds of weird stuff on my first test drive. Everything but the rattle went away once fixed.

Stevebsy · #11 07-03-2013, 03:28 PM

If you can drive it, then you didn't destroy the pump like I did. Mine didn't pump any fluid, nor would it engage the wheels, so if you have no leaking you made out better than I did back then.

You should pull the codes from the transmission and see what it is complaining about. You might have not properly plugged in the speed sensor correctly or something simple like that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by James Scott

I really wish I was told about this during installation! I made it clear.. I'm a "novice".. not a mechanic.. when getting installation steps.. Hmmm?

WELL! .. I drove my car.. new "rebuilt" engine.. wudn't start 15 min later.. Acted like out of gas! Noticed no Fuel Pump buzz then! Popped fuel delivery line off engine.. NO GAS PRESSURE! Yikes.. Gotta fuel pump yesterday.. Gotta put it in first..

The SVX is not driving right, but don't know what the "TC/SHAFT JAM" would do to the AT function.. if it damaged it, but dint destroy the oil pump like you both did??? Goes forward..and Reverse.. BUT, ReAlLy WeIrD turning corners! There's a VERY noticeable wobble (like axles SHOT, but they're NOT) when turning corners.. ??? Could this be an AT malfunction resulting from the "TC/SHAFT JAM" .. AAAHHHhhhhhhh!!!

Thanks, Jim

P.S. I also had speedometer partial malfunction (works on/off?) .. on my short test drive. Can't remember what drives it? Could that be AT malfunction?? (Told ya I'm a novice [actually senile])

James Scott · #12 07-03-2013, 04:15 PM

HOPEFULLY!

I don't know what that wobbling on turning is??? Since I know my axles are OK (were OK) .. Mustn't it be the transaxle ?? It was bad! Added some more ATF.. little low.. HOPING IT IS THAT! .. Ha!

How does the axle get power? Isn't it from the rear of the AT? The TC is attached to that line shaft .. SO, pushing back on the TC/shaft .. like during this installation tragedy.. would not affect the axles directly. wud it? If the car goes OK .. forward and reverse.. then how does the axle get wobbly .. ONLY ON TURNING.. ?? Cud it be Power Steering? I had to add a little ATF in PS pump also.. ? I haven't been able to drive my SVX since.. bcuz of the fuel pump issue. Soon.. I hope!

Thanks, Jim

Tapani · #13 07-03-2013, 09:14 PM

Are both your front axles completely seated in the differential?

You may try installing the FWD fuse too, if it is a US spec car this should make it front wheel drive.

/T

James Scott · #14 07-08-2013, 04:18 PM

My car now won't stay in 4th.. clunks back and forth intermittently between 3rd and 4th.. [no TL] .. depending on load, etc. .. Also, very bad wobble on turning from stop (until steering straightened).. as described earlier by me .. AND by Crash Bandit!

I obviously need another AT!

I'm gonna try some diagnostics Tom recs.. but not too hopeful right now..

Thanks, Jim

Stevebsy · #15 07-08-2013, 04:33 PM

How big/good is your trans cooler? If it is cool enough, it will not lock into 4th, or once in 4th it will cool the ATF enough so that it will unlock.

When I lived in the northern region I had issues with this, but don't have it any more since moving to TX lol.