Wiring Upgrade

[Cam]

I just ordered all the stuff for John's wiring upgrade. I am having issues with a ground loop in my stereo. If this doesn't fix it, then I am afraid my head unit was grounded poorly, or my amp may have an internal issue.

Currently, my amp is grounded all the way back to the battery. I experimented with different locations (tapped through the shell in the trunk, under the rear seat, etc.). The battery worked best, as it cured a good deal of the issue. I have ground loop isolators run in-line on my RCA's, and they helped a lot too. I just feel like my system is not grounding properly, so I decided the wiring upgrade was the next step.

I am gonna have to run a new ground line to my deck if this doesn't cure it though, and I hate taking that thing out, it's such a pain.

[Lookin4SVX]

If moving the ground to the front of the car (battery) made the ground loop noise less, my guess is that the ground on the head unit is poor, since shortening the distance between the amp ground and the head unit ground lessened the noise.

I would recommend adding an additional ground wire to the head unit.

or

It could be a bad ground internally on the RCA jacks on the head unit.
Wrap some bare wire around the RCA jacks at the head unit and then touch the other end to the metal frame of the head unit. If noise goes away, its a ground problem on the RCA's

or

It could be cheap shielded wires if you ran your RCA cables parallel with your power wire on the same side of the car.
Move the RCA cables away from the power wire to test this.

[Cam]

Originally Posted by Lookin4SVX

(1) If moving the ground to the front of the car (battery) made the ground loop noise less, my guess is that the ground on the head unit is poor, since shortening the distance between the amp ground and the head unit ground lessened the noise.

I would recommend adding an additional ground wire to the head unit.

or

(2) It could be a bad ground internally on the RCA jacks on the head unit.
Wrap some bare wire around the RCA jacks at the head unit and then touch the other end to the metal frame of the head unit. If noise goes away, its a ground problem on the RCA's

or

(3) It could be cheap shielded wires if you ran your RCA cables parallel with your power wire on the same side of the car.
Move the RCA cables away from the power wire to test this.

(1) This is what I am afraid of, but I want to do the wiring upgrade anyways, so who knows, it may help.

(2) Could be, but I would like to give the head unit the benefit of the doubt. It's a clarion unit. I more suspect the amp since the ground loop appeared when the amp was installed.

(3) I have monster RCA's ran on the opposite side of the car from the power wires. So I don't believe this is the cause.

Thanks for the input Gives me direction if the additional ground and improved ground paths in the wiring upgrade don't solve the issue.

[1986nate]

Ground the HU directly to the battery as well. Ground loops are caused by grounding in different locations. Most commonly happen if you are utilizing 2 amps and you ground them in different locations-areas on the body compared to grounding to the body, or as you have done and I always do, back to the battery. The ground noise is now coming through the head unit and is pretty common when grounding amps directly to the battery. (in most cases, ground noise comes in play through the amps)

And the BIG 3 wiring upgrade will help as well

[Cam]

Thanks Nate. That is what I was planning to do after the upgrade. It is still possible that there is an internal flaw in the amp somewhere...a cold solder... among other things. But I am hoping that the amp is fine.

[1986nate]

Originally Posted by Cam

Thanks Nate. That is what I was planning to do after the upgrade. It is still possible that there is an internal flaw in the amp somewhere...a cold solder... among other things. But I am hoping that the amp is fine.

I ended up having a fried amp at one time. It was a 4 channel and as I later learned, it was because I had only used 2 of the channels for awhile in a setup I had done. 2 channels had light enough ground noise that a ground loop isolater fixed it, but the other 2 channels (the ones not used for a time), the ground noise was god awful...

Let's hope your amp is perfectly fine

[Jay Wrix]

You should never ground your amps through the battery, theres a TON of resistance in using that much battery!

the Big three is by far the most important thing, along with a good battery.

I have a sweet sound system in my 1987 f-150, it pulls alot of watts, and I run two amps, (750 pioneer),(1000Jl) I had a ton of noise at first, and trust me, that truck was NOT designed for it. I ran 0 gauge back for power, and the grounds were two 4 gauge feeds from the amp, to the bolt at the bottom of my seat. make sure you scrape the metal very bare! so a good contact is accomplished. then I smashed the seat down ontop of the ring terminal. and had solid grounding points, or so I thought, but NOISE

I then added an additional ) 0 gauge ground from the battery negative, to the frame. ( of "solid" body point) That solved alot! I was surpised. and my dim headlights when my sub pounded, no longer a problem. Next I ran addition grounds on the motor, and the hood, frame components (subframe on a subbie) and all metals, using mostly four gauge, I finally killed even the altrenator whine! ( well, currently the alt's blown)

A healthy ground on the head units necessary too, youd be amazed what silly things can cause a ton of radio noise, id run through all the connections in the audio and make sure that they are solid! I had a loose one in my truck the plauged me for months!

[1986nate]

Every audio person says not to ground to the battery because of resistance??? How is there more resistance using heavy gauge wire than running it to the frame where it has the resistance of not just plain steel, but also has to go through welds... This is the load of crap I hear. I have had amps grounded straight to the battery and never had a problem in the 5 cars of my own I've done it in, the 3 cars my buddy did it with and won audio competitions and 2 cars another friend did it in as I advised.
It helps greatly with headlight dim and all but eliminates it.
I had an 85 Olds delta 88 with a 1000 RMS amp driving a sub with just a 65 amp alternator stock on those cars. Before grounding to the battery, it had horrid headlight dim. Afterward, it was minimal at full volume and non present at normal volumes.
The real reason they tell you not to ground to the battery is so stupid companies can sell they're capacitors and other crap that isn't needed. My buddy had a Cherokee using a capacitor and still had headlight dim until I finally convinced him after about a year to ditch it and ground back to the battery, and guess what, solved all the issues.

Also, to be honest, I've never done the big 3 on any cars I've done a stereo on because after grounding to the battery, there's no issue....

[Jay Wrix]

I dont have to use a cap, nor ever had too.

Im just basing what I was told, and the reason I dont run it to the batterys
was from a group of Audio Engineers, who specialized in car audio, at the University I attended, I dont often argue with there logic, regardless if it is apparently flawed and broken.