SVX Engine cooling "Again & Again"

[Dessertrunner]

Okay guys I am going to be a pain in the A__ and stat this all over again. My reason is that at this time I don't know anywere in the world that someone has an SVX engine that stays cool at high revs. Right now we have blown 1 engine due to heat and my friend Steve with the buggy has blown 2. If we asked around I am sure the total will be over 10 engine that have either been blown completly or just head gaskets.

What I have found recently is the following:-
- Multiple pass radiator "DID NOT" slove the problem.
- A bigger Radiator "DID NOT" slove the problem (buggy radiator is 3 times bigger then my PBR).
- During the recent desert crossing I notice on my 3 tempreture guages that the water going into the top of the radiator was at 90C the water coming out of the radiator was at 70C but the dash temp was overheating, above 115C. Didn't check at the time but after noticed cool had spillied from the overflow tank.

So the big question is what do we now know.
The only way my over heating issue can happen is that the left head was overheating as that is were dash & ECU temp guage is. It is also possiable that is the water boiled in the left head the pressure would go up and would cause the coolent to overflow. This can still happen when the radiator is cool because tempreture and pressure behave differently.

Now we are cutting the cross pipe and will post photos of the job in the next couple of days.

Will keep you posted.
Tony

[michael]

This may sound stupid but have you tried water wetter?

[Dessertrunner]

Not sure that it will help with cooling but if you can explain how I would appricate it.
Tony

[SilverSpear]

Water Wetter? Is that it?

I guess the overheating EG33 problem under an extreme condition outweighs by far the issue of adding a coolant.

Something has to be made concerning the issue of boiling water in the block.

[michael]

This one http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=74&pcid=10
Only reason I would ever suggest it is because of the quality and experience I have had with their other products. If it can lower the temps 20 degrees that is nothing to sneeze at.

[SilverSpear]

Michael, this product might be great and all, but I don't think anyone doing boost or high profile N/A would bet on the reliability of his +$6000 setup over a $10 bottle of coolant.

That might be added to tapping or whatever enhancement is done in the cooling process.

We will be waiting on Tony and Tom's project developments to see what they would come up with.

[svx1999]

Water Wetter does in fact work. It reduces the sruface tension so the tiny and stops the formation of the tiny bubbles from forming on the water jacket.

When Water wetter is paired up with Amsoil Coolant ( which yes Last 100,000 miles or 7 years before you need to change it out. The 2 combined enhance each other and you get a greater than 20 degree drop. ah as some chemist who had done extensive research. I have been using Amsoil products through out my car. ALL fluids other than antifreeze have been changed now.
Best suggestion go to their web site, and pay the 20 bucks to become a preferred customer discount. This gives you a 25 or 30% price break. If you buy oil alone what you save Gives you back your 25 bucks you spent singing up. Word to the wise Amsoil Transmission Fluid is great for out cars as it takes the heat Fat better than any other product I've seen. YOU NEED TO USE THERE FILTERS. This is important. They also have a Airfilter that Filters down to a Micron level WITH OUT RESTRICTIONS. You will notice a small inscrease in MPG just with the air Filter alone. They have also have Oil By pass Filters to further remove particulate matter and removal of other contaminates, Further enxtending your drain intervals and Much less wear.
The Better the oil is kept clean and does not become acidic, Less wear.

As a matter of knowing Amsoil was commissioned by Ford GM and Chrysler to formulate there 0 weight oils. Due to the Very tight tolerances the BIG 3 were locking engines up more than they wanted. Once Amsoil came into the picture NO more problem. Redline is one of there competitors but looking over the numbers, Amsoil beat them. Also I would suggest, anyone doing Bearings use either something from Amsoil or LE. LE is more commercial but whatever compounds they use Save a bearing. The hotter it gets and the more pressure the better the product works. It will save your Bearings.

I supplied the tech to pack my bearings with it but he failed to do so, I haven't had any problems as of yet but I would have liked it if he had done what I asked. I have met with several reps and other engineers. They swear by it. Amsoil I have a good bit of experience with. Seriously no matter what your set up. USE the product. Plus you can't beat the guarantee. SO long as you follow there drain and mile charts and use there filters. If it BLOWS your engine. They will do an oil analysis or you can have one done just to get a base line before you change out. If it's determined it was lubrication failure they will REPLACE THE ENGINE.

THIS IS NOT SNAKE OIL. I would NEVER recommend a product that doesn't produce the results it claims. Besides, I use to be a mobile 1 fan.
After talking to the guys at the race way they said there wear data was no different from just regular oil. I noticed in the SVX, around 3,000 miles it would be as black as tar. When I changed over to Amsoil. 8,000 miles later it was Honey brown. Just like it should be. So check in to it.

For your turbo guys, This product can withstand the extra heat produced.
Amsoil backs there claims up with FACT NOT marketing otherwise they would be sued for false advertising and to date they have NOT.
You can even get a copy of all certified Lab test they use to compare there product to others. the numbers don't lie.

SVX1999

The chemist was some local guy that said the combination with the water wetter and amsoil antifreeze gave a long winded explanation on the chemical compounds used and why. some of it went over my head but he had no reason to try to sale me anything he was just sharing his findings.

Originally Posted by michael

This one http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=74&pcid=10
Only reason I would ever suggest it is because of the quality and experience I have had with their other products. If it can lower the temps 20 degrees that is nothing to sneeze at.

[Trevor]

Originally Posted by Dessertrunner

My reason is that at this time I don't know anywere in the world that someone has an SVX engine that stays cool at high revs.
What I have found recently is the following:-
- Multiple pass radiator "DID NOT" slove the problem.
- A bigger Radiator "DID NOT" slove the problem (buggy radiator is 3 times bigger then my PBR).

So the big question is what do we now know.
The only way my over heating issue can happen is that the left head was overheating as that is were dash & ECU temp guage is.

Will keep you posted. Tony

Tony, trying to apply some crude logic to your previous results.

Engine and therefore pump speed, is a deciding factor according to recorded fact. I have previously mentioned speed of water flow and others have suggested possible impeller cavitation. As far as I am aware this factor has not been properly tested, whereas there is every reason to suspect this as an issue.

Reducing the pump efficiency is not difficult and involves at the worst, only the cost of a used component. The time honoured method is to drill substantial holes through the rotors.

You appear to have concluded that only the left head is overheating, but it can not be concluded that this is confined to the particular area of the engine associated with the sensors.

Speak to some old timers who have used the flat head Ford V8 for racing.

You have the fortitude and will find the answer, Trevor.

[SomethingElse]

Originally Posted by Trevor

Reducing the pump efficiency is not difficult and involves at the worst, only the cost of a used component. The time honoured method is to drill substantial holes through the rotors.

Would you suggest drilling every impeller? or every other one?

[Dessertrunner]

Trevor,
I am to dumb to have concluded or come up with the idea its the left bank I have only comfirmed it as highly likly. The info that supports this argument are that the newer 6 cylinder Subarus have 2 return pipes to the radiator making me think they found the left bank wasn't getting enough cooling. Second a UK rally guy sent my buggy friend a photo of how they have moded the top pipe on the 4 cylinder so the water flows more evenly from the heads because they had been killing engines on the left bank.
Tony

[Dessertrunner]

Cooling pipe that we are modify, Tom suggestion.
Tony

[TomsSVX]

Tom

[Trevor]

Originally Posted by Dessertrunner

Trevor,
I am to dumb to have concluded or come up with the idea its the left bank I have only comfirmed it as highly likly. The info that supports this argument are that the newer 6 cylinder Subarus have 2 return pipes to the radiator making me think they found the left bank wasn't getting enough cooling. Second a UK rally guy sent my buggy friend a photo of how they have moded the top pipe on the 4 cylinder so the water flows more evenly from the heads because they had been killing engines on the left bank.
Tony

Tony,

Be very sure that I did not consider that you are in any way "dumb", hence my words ---
"You appear to have concluded that only the left head is overheating, but it can not be concluded that this is confined to the particular area of the engine associated with the sensors."

Thankfully you have now confirmed that there can be no doubts in this area, which was in fact my reason for my comment.

All involved are now reporting with absolute certainty, that only the left side of the engine is overheating. On this basis the problem can as a first consideration, involve the split in coolant distribution.

Under no circumstances, should it be taken for granted that the design engineers were infallible.

[NiftySVX]

First let me say that I always thought the crossover pipe was a less than ideal design. I agree completely that it is possibly a restriction at higher than intended RPMs at extended periods as thought of by an engineer. We have to remember the engineering mindset. If you ask one if a cup is half full or half empty, they will tell you the cup is twice as big as it needs to be I am sure that during development testing they knew the limits of the cooling system, but since it works satisfactory with a stock setup, why make it flow more than necessary?

As for the manual transmission debate, I have always thought that the "too much torque" was a rumor, because Fuji has the capability and know how to machine stronger gears if they needed to at not much additional expense. The true reason for it that was communicated to me by a Subaru rep that was around back then told me that he remembered seeing it in writing somewhere that The SVX would not be offered in a manual transmission because it was meant to showcase the "Active" all wheel drive and they did not have a manual with an active system until the DCCD system came around.

And third, THERE IS A PICTURE OF A EG33 WITH TURBO(S) ON IT DURING DEVELOPMENT??? where???

[TomsSVX]

I have been granted permission to run a test on Shotgunslade's engine. I have modified the X-over manifold for the water outlet. I am going to run this modification alone w/o the aux. cooling ports in the heads to find out if this is helping the overheating issues by itself. If not, I will hook up the aux. cooling ports and work from there. After seeing the minuscule volume of the inside of the manifold I can only imagine that the flow through it is limited and I would imagine the limit is right around 6500 engine RPMS and thus the high RPM engines that are experiencing the issues. Lets see what we find and work from there.

I can honestly say that impeding the flow is not going to help anything except allowing it to overheat on both sides of the engine rather than just the one restricted at this point

Tom