Another shuddering/ binding question.

[showoval]

Ok, first the car has a 4.44 xmsn with Quick Change, 108k on the chassis and not sure about xmsn. The car has a hard shift from 1st to 2nd sometimes and a slow shift from 2nd to 3rd. The power light would blink on every forth start and now blinks at every start. Pulled only one code, 25 prior and have the same code now. Now the shuddering starts when crawling through traffic 0-10mph under very light acceleration and making light right turns. I can also feel the shudder under normal acceleration but not as prominent during the slow crawl. Also when it does begin to shudder I hear a pinging sound coming from the center of the car, as if someone is lightly tapping on the driveshaft?

I've read that putting some type of ATF synthetic lube might fix the problem and that my code 25 could be coming from the QC charging up or the wires not seated properly in the wire taps. But the shuddering has me worried along with the tapping sound. I'm going to put in the FWD fuse in and try the lube and see what happens. But in the mean time anyone have any thoughts on what else to chase down?

[oab_au]

Originally Posted by showoval

Ok, first the car has a 4.44 xmsn with Quick Change, 108k on the chassis and not sure about xmsn. The car has a hard shift from 1st to 2nd sometimes and a slow shift from 2nd to 3rd. The power light would blink on every forth start and now blinks at every start. Pulled only one code, 25 prior and have the same code now. Now the shuddering starts when crawling through traffic 0-10mph under very light acceleration and making light right turns. I can also feel the shudder under normal acceleration but not as prominent during the slow crawl. Also when it does begin to shudder I hear a pinging sound coming from the center of the car, as if someone is lightly tapping on the driveshaft?

I've read that putting some type of ATF synthetic lube might fix the problem and that my code 25 could be coming from the QC charging up or the wires not seated properly in the wire taps. But the shuddering has me worried along with the tapping sound. I'm going to put in the FWD fuse in and try the lube and see what happens. But in the mean time anyone have any thoughts on what else to chase down?

"Ok, first the car has a 4.44 xmsn ". What is the xmsn?

The code 25 is the Torque Control, that cuts the engine power, this can be caused by the connections on the blue/green wires. It can also be because the battery is low in charge, causing the QC to charge slowly. There is a mod to prevent this if it is the problem.

Having said that, the QC won't cause the other problems that you have.

The car has a hard shift from 1st to 2nd sometimes and a slow shift from 2nd to 3rd.

This sounds like the throttle signal through the dropping resistor is changing, TPS?

the shuddering starts when crawling through traffic 0-10mph under very light acceleration and making light right turns. I can also feel the shudder under normal acceleration but not as prominent during the slow crawl.

The shuddering in a turn can be the C Solenoid, the Transfer valve, or the Transfer clutch plates binding. But this won't cause it when crawling through traffic slowly, or under acceleration.

the shuddering has me worried along with the tapping sound. I'm going to put in the FWD fuse in

I can't see anything in the box making a tapping sound, this would be more an external thing like the shielding. Fitting the fuse will turn the C solenoid off, but if it is caused by the Transfer valve or plates, it won"t change.

Harvey.

[showoval]

Originally Posted by oab_au

"Ok, first the car has a 4.44 xmsn ". What is the xmsn?

The code 25 is the Torque Control, that cuts the engine power, this can be caused by the connections on the blue/green wires. It can also be because the battery is low in charge, causing the QC to charge slowly. There is a mod to prevent this if it is the problem.

Having said that, the QC won't cause the other problems that you have.

Thanks for the quick reply Harvey. The transmission is from a 98 Leggy outback, not sure of any numbers as it was on the car from the previous owner. And I was pretty sure the QC wasn't the problem as I read a thread about the code and the QC. I did not know about the mod though, I'll look into that and the wires to make sure the connection is true.

Originally Posted by oab_au

This sounds like the throttle signal through the dropping resistor is changing, TPS?

Hmm, I'll have to search that as well, thanks.

Originally Posted by oab_au

The shuddering in a turn can be the C Solenoid, the Transfer valve, or the Transfer clutch plates binding. But this won't cause it when crawling through traffic slowly, or under acceleration.

I noticed it more during traffic and it's more prominent during slow turns under light to heavy acceleration now

Originally Posted by oab_au

I can't see anything in the box making a tapping sound, this would be more an external thing like the shielding. Fitting the fuse will turn the C solenoid off, but if it is caused by the Transfer valve or plates, it won"t change.

Harvey.

Drove around with the fuse in and the problem is still present. Not sure of what my next move should be. Transfer clutch , valves, C solenoid sounds pricey, what's a worst case scenerio with $$$ numbers.

Joey

[oab_au]

Originally Posted by showoval

Thanks for the quick reply Harvey. The transmission is from a 98 Leggy outback, not sure of any numbers as it was on the car from the previous owner. And I was pretty sure the QC wasn't the problem as I read a thread about the code and the QC. I did not know about the mod though, I'll look into that and the wires to make sure the connection is true.



Hmm, I'll have to search that as well, thanks.



I noticed it more during traffic and it's more prominent during slow turns under light to heavy acceleration now




Drove around with the fuse in and the problem is still present. Not sure of what my next move should be. Transfer clutch , valves, C solenoid sounds pricey, what's a worst case scenerio with $$$ numbers.

Joey

I think you need to be sure of what is happening when you say this,

"I noticed it more during traffic and it's more prominent during slow turns under light to heavy acceleration now"

If this shuddering happens when travailing in a straight line, it is not the AWD system. It maybe the gearbox mounts.?

If it only happens when turning, then it can be the AWD system. As far as the cost over there, maybe $500.00 to do the C solenoid/Transfer valve, and the clutch plates.

Harvey.

[showoval]

Originally Posted by oab_au

I think you need to be sure of what is happening when you say this,

"I noticed it more during traffic and it's more prominent during slow turns under light to heavy acceleration now"

If this shuddering happens when travailing in a straight line, it is not the AWD system. It maybe the gearbox mounts.?

If it only happens when turning, then it can be the AWD system. As far as the cost over there, maybe $500.00 to do the C solenoid/Transfer valve, and the clutch plates.

Harvey.

Once again Harvey, thank you for your responses. It definitely does it while turning that is for sure. And the straight light is only when crawling or lightly acclerating,but the shuddering is barely noticeable. I want to say that it was there prior to feeling the worse shudder on turns. The gearbox mounts could be why the heat shield vibrates tremendously during crawl speeds (0-20) and the pinging sound coming from the drive shaft well area.

[Tapani]

The binding and shudder may be two different things like Harvey suggested, yes? Inner driveshaft joints (shudder)?

Tapani

[showoval]

Well dropped the car off at the transmission shop and gave the low down on what I thought was wrong. We'll see what it what happens now, I did notice the car was starting to surge taking off from a start only in first gear, wonder if that's part of the possible transmission problem?

[showoval]

Well the diagnosis is in, during the test drive the tech noticed an engine flare from 1-2,2-3 and 3-4, is this xmsn starting to go bad or is the quick change he's feeling?

Also during the drive the tech was doing slow speed turns to replicate the shuddering and the drive shaft carrier failed causing it to flop around . Could that have been the cause of my shuddering?

So now I'm going to replace the driveshaft since the car is not drivable, but hopefully that cures the problem. The total to rebuild the xmsn, new driveshaft and a new L/H CV axle will total $3466, not sure i want to put more money into her now

[1986nate]

Originally Posted by showoval

Well the diagnosis is in, during the test drive the tech noticed an engine flare from 1-2,2-3 and 3-4, is this xmsn starting to go bad or is the quick change he's feeling?

Also during the drive the tech was doing slow speed turns to replicate the shuddering and the drive shaft carrier failed causing it to flop around . Could that have been the cause of my shuddering?

So now I'm going to replace the driveshaft since the car is not drivable, but hopefully that cures the problem. The total to rebuild the xmsn, new driveshaft and a new L/H CV axle will total $3466, not sure i want to put more money into her now

4.44 swap, plenty of used driveshafts around, and an axle is $70 at Advance auto
Should be able to be done for about $1500-2000 (including labor)

[icingdeath88]

Originally Posted by 1986nate

4.44 swap, plenty of used driveshafts around, and an axle is $70 at Advance auto
Should be able to be done for about $1500-2000 (including labor)

And a 4.44 will yield a much more reliable car, that gets marginally better city gas mileage and much better torque.

[showoval]

Originally Posted by icingdeath88

And a 4.44 will yield a much more reliable car, that gets marginally better city gas mileage and much better torque.

Yeah, i thought about getting a used one but the thought of this happening again I decided to shell out for a new one(only 7 left in the US) plus the shop didn't want to use a used one due to warranty. And the previous owner installed a 4.44 , no idea how many miles it had prior to installation, so this is my dilemma now.

[oab_au]

Originally Posted by showoval

Well the diagnosis is in, during the test drive the tech noticed an engine flare from 1-2,2-3 and 3-4, is this xmsn starting to go bad or is the quick change he's feeling?

Also during the drive the tech was doing slow speed turns to replicate the shuddering and the drive shaft carrier failed causing it to flop around . Could that have been the cause of my shuddering?

So now I'm going to replace the driveshaft since the car is not drivable, but hopefully that cures the problem. The total to rebuild the xmsn, new driveshaft and a new L/H CV axle will total $3466, not sure i want to put more money into her now

I don't know what he is calling a 'flair'. You can get a flair between 2nd and 3rd, as the band lets go of 2nd, and the clutch grabs 3rd. If the band lets go early or the clutch grabs late, it will rev till the clutch grabs 3rd. This is a flair.

This can't happen between 1st to 2nd or 3rd to 4th. From 1st to 2nd, it stays in 1st till the band comes on, if the band comes on late, it just changes at a higher speed, no flair.

Harvey.

[showoval]

Well all my binding and shuddering is gone now due to a new drive shaft, even my 1st gear hard shift is now a firm shift and my heat shield noise is gone . Highway speeds feel a lot smoother, I guess I had just gotten use to the vibrations of the car that I thought it was normal till it started to get bad.