This could explain a lot

[NikFu S.]

Speaking of the Koch brothers...

you hear much about the supposed boycott of Koch-owned paper products that was supposed to go down? I was all for it until I realized I didn't buy any of that stuff anyway, but one argument I heard against it was that the boycotting of goods like this hurts the lower end of the job market, and I agree, it does.
That's the price you pay for working for a company that does whatever it does to have people rallying against it.

But less on that point and more to the general point I had just thought of, borrowing from the earlier argument that someone had made on motor companies failing resulting in too much job loss...


[here it comes]

where is the outcry from these same people when jobs are lost in a more legitimate manner of enterprising?

I'm talking about things like Netflix and downloadable/streamable movies and TV series. Has not this recent trend all but laid waste to companies like Blockbuster and their lesser-known competitors? Where are the bailouts for them?

I would never argue for a Blockbuster bailout but when I notice the blatant hypocrisy of people to "worry" about jobs that are "stolen" from innocent people through politically-inspired movements yet remain silent when something arguably great (from an immediate consumer perspective) merely overtakes something obsolete... I just can not keep a firm grasp on that person's credibility as it begins to trickle out of my hands.

[RojoRocket]

Originally Posted by sunvalleyray

Think Professor Paul Wooley from the London School of Economics would agree. Great article in The New Yorker - http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2...printable=true regarding the false assumptions that the market is efficient.

I have been away on a business road trip and see that several people still believe, as I once did, that the free market system is exactly that - free, efficient and fair. Read Professor Wooley's theory and then let's discuss.

Regarding who pays what in taxes...give me 90% of all income and I will pay 99% in taxes and still be super rich. The real issue is what is a fair rate of taxation not how much one pays. Statistics can be very misleading...93% of all lesbians are woman etc. meaning one can prove almost anything quoting numbers. Remember 87% of all tax payers make less than $100,000 a year!

I think the middle class is disappearing and that the American dream is a myth being sold to us by the super rich, like the owner of Fox News or the financiers of the Tea Party - the Koch Brothers.

Ray

Thank you Ray. Excellent reading, although a very sad tale of our current times, and the unbridled greed running rampant in the land. Very sad indeed.

Glenn Call me one of the 87%

[LetItSnow]

Originally Posted by NikFu S.

...companies like Blockbuster and their lesser-known competitors...

Their influence in the GDP and employment of skilled workers hardly compares to even lowly Chrysler. Most Blockbuster employees aren't trying to keep a family fed with their income.

[NikFu S.]

I anticipated that point would be made but I offer no retort.

I only question the imposed importance of and resulting exaggerated effects of so called too-big-to-fail companies.

Jobs are jobs. Everything is temporary, unless it is stagnant. Jobs lost through failure are only jobs temporarily lost. Market remains. Jobs lost through the introduction of more efficient technology (i.e. automation) are terminal.

The robotic automation of automobile (and other) factories has also "replaced" or made obsolete many skilled workers, and while some companies reached out and remain "fully staffed", that is a distraction from the point I am making that it is a fact jobs will be lost as greater efficiency is achieved, as less work, energy, resources, or funding is required to create the same result.

If one desires progress of efficiency, one must accept a surplus of laborers will be created. This can be avoided if the parent company creates new work, which it can do at the expense/risk of revenue.

If one desires a constipated workforce (for reasons of morality/statistics?), one must favor or emphasize stagnation in the sense that production ideally can't change. If it decreases, jobs are lost without creating efficiency. If it increases, demand must have already increased or there will be a product surplus which will inevitably lower prices, costing revenue in not one but two ways; resources consumed and stores over-supplied.

One way to increase demand: increase population, but this by nature will cause unemployment statistics to rise, but without that pesky factor of "job loss" morality. Sales are increased through welfare if wares are cheap.

Second way: self-degrading, rapidly-obsolescent wares, where the burden is shouldered by the front store, not the manufacturer. This only prolongs production stagnation. Both money and resources (the unsold wares) are depleted at no return, but at no loss to the manufacturer. Loss minimized through reclamation.

Third way: Create necessity. This can be done through covert legal means, advertising, franchising (i.e. Disney+McToys). Burden may be shouldered by the consumer. Negative effect: increased potential for counter-legislation, bad press, lawsuits. Need well-paid PR team of loyal patsies.

Increasing energy/tooling/logistics efficiency creates great manufacturing returns at the cost of jobs (due to redundancy). This in my opinion is only detrimental in that sense. Resources are better off. Manufacturer is better off. Front-stores are better off. Consumers are better off. Reputation can go either way depending on media coverage. Former workers and families will protest. Sympathizers will protest. Longevity of company is assured until next upgrade re-evaluation.


Boy I am tired. What the hell am I rambling about?

Anyway, efficiency leads to a "jobless", cashless, possibly technocratic Star Trek-like society.

Corporatism will eventually self-destruct any system incorporating it unless it can simultaneously manage various renewable resources (fresh water/sunlight/tides/fertile grounds/etc, but this leads to basic public lands resource acquisitions which is little more than corporo-capitalistic feudalism. Ya dig?

I guess the main point under the train wreck of all the other points I have so far avoided making is if a giant corporation in this day fails, it is because the system is demanding a re-evaluation of a certain efficiency. In the case of the auto-makers, as I have stated earlier, less emphasis on over-production of mediocre quality vehicles, more adaptation for future-proofing the consumer. Ford has taken steps with a great Hybrid vehicle, the Fusion Hybrid, and the soon-coming Focus Electric which is both fantastically electric, yet sadly a Focus.
Production is maintained with electric cars. Infrastructure is expensive but available. Efficiency (health/resource) is gained through the lack of a need for gasoline/oil on the consumer end.

If you think I am wrong, tell Ford, BMW, Chevy, Toyota, whoever to stop producing electric vehicles. If you think they are not viable, I will be happy to continue rambling, as apparently I do it even without the intention.
Thanks for tl;dr. =D

[stevek]

Having read through all the posts on this I reckon there can't be many forums with such erudite and succinct replies. You guys should be running the country, and mine too please!
In the UK, I'm surprised that we are all suffering, seemingly, from the action of others in this recession without rebellion. Maybe it's coming. One inescapable fact remains though, if the rich haven't got richer how come Ferrari had their best ever sales in 2010?
How come my bank chooses to help small businesses by doubling my o/d interest rate and increasing the 'arrangement fee' whilst recording a monster 48% margin on business lending? Risk free, I may add, as they have increased the security stranglehold on my genitalia.

Sorry, I'll get back to the Euro Forum section now and behave myself.

[RojoRocket]

NikFu
Boy I am tired. What the hell am I rambling about?

Like! LOL!! You need to get more rest buddy.

Originally Posted by stevek

Having read through all the posts on this I reckon there can't be many forums with such erudite and succinct replies. You guys should be running the country, and mine too please!
In the UK, I'm surprised that we are all suffering, seemingly, from the action of others in this recession without rebellion. Maybe it's coming. One inescapable fact remains though, if the rich haven't got richer how come Ferrari had their best ever sales in 2010?
How come my bank chooses to help small businesses by doubling my o/d interest rate and increasing the 'arrangement fee' whilst recording a monster 48% margin on business lending? Risk free, I may add, as they have increased the security stranglehold on my genitalia.

Sorry, I'll get back to the Euro Forum section now and behave myself.

Like! Stick around stevek! Everyone's welcome in here. Good to hear an opinion from across the pond, and know we're all in this together.

Glenn Call me "Going Broke"

[sunvalleyray]

Originally Posted by RojoRocket

Like! LOL!! You need to get more rest buddy.




Like! Stick around stevek! Everyone's welcome in here. Good to hear an opinion from across the pond, and know we're all in this together.

Glenn Call me "Going Broke"

Now for some humor - http://www.informationclearinghouse....ticle14837.htm

[RojoRocket]

Always loved Carlin. But I'm not laughing this time.

Glenn

[sunvalleyray]

Originally Posted by RojoRocket

Always loved Carlin. But I'm not laughing this time.

Glenn

I feel the same way.

Ray

[RojoRocket]

Well, if nothing else I've joined the Info Clearing House and look forward to hearing some daily, NO B.S. news. Thank you Ray.

Glenn Call me PI$$ED!!

[stevek]

Seeing as how you folk have kindly let me join in this discussion (you may well regret it!) I had an invoice today from the 'Performing Rights Society' for £140. This is to enable me to have the radio on, legally, for customers and staff members to listen to for a year. The PRS is a 'non profit making' organisation. It has several directors earning £300,000.00+ a year though. The vast majority of it's income, after costs such as mentioned, go to about 5% of member artists.

(If these facts are wrong, PRS, please put me straight).

Do you have an organisation like this in America?

[K_Dub]

Originally Posted by stevek

Seeing as how you folk have kindly let me join in this discussion (you may well regret it!) I had an invoice today from the 'Performing Rights Society' for £140. This is to enable me to have the radio on, legally, for customers and staff members to listen to for a year. The PRS is a 'non profit making' organisation. It has several directors earning £300,000.00+ a year though. The vast majority of it's income, after costs such as mentioned, go to about 5% of member artists.

(If these facts are wrong, PRS, please put me straight).

Do you have an organisation like this in America?

I guess this would be analogous to BMI, which handles the licensing for musical recordings. The difference is in where the "dues" get payed; here it is paid by the stations in order to play the track. The problem is that these fees have risen to such a degree that only major media outlets can publicly play music. These companies, like Clear Channel, just took on the independent Internet radio providers with backing from BMI to drive them out of business (billing guys with music blogs millions retroactively for having freely played music for years). Many died off, while some of the bigger outlets like Pandora Radio changed to a pay/commercial model to stay afloat. As an artist I sure am grateful to these millionaires for keeping the world safe from emerging talent. Just imagine what media darlings like Justin Beiber would do if they actually had to compete with talented but unsigned musicians on a level playing field.

On another note. The 'lil lady and I were stopped at a light and she pointed out a gov't truck with "Civilian Conservation Corps" badges on the side. I didn't know that program still existed, but the two guys in the truck sure seemed happy to be working today. I was going to call them "freeloading commies" but they seemed pretty tough, so I let them slide. Just don't let me catch them building any dams or bridges in my canyon, we like our roads like we like our government: unpredictable and subject to closure.

[RojoRocket]

Originally Posted by stevek

Seeing as how you folk have kindly let me join in this discussion (you may well regret it!) I had an invoice today from the 'Performing Rights Society' for £140. This is to enable me to have the radio on, legally, for customers and staff members to listen to for a year. The PRS is a 'non profit making' organisation. It has several directors earning £300,000.00+ a year though. The vast majority of it's income, after costs such as mentioned, go to about 5% of member artists.

(If these facts are wrong, PRS, please put me straight).

Do you have an organisation like this in America?

Steve,
As Kit stated BMI is in the same "business". My Brother-in-Law owns and operates 2 pizza parlors, and had two "gents" walk in a few weeks ago attempting to shake him down for some hundreds of dollars IIRC, because he plays music in the background at his businesses. He refused to play, stating that he pays fees to "XM Radio" in one parlor and "Muzack" in the other for said music, and saw no reason to pay some 3rd party when he was already "covered" by his monthly dues. They left without a fuss, but made him wonder how many folks just pony up the $$, and felt like he was being scammed until he was able to check the organization out.

Here in California we have a rather "infamous" charlatan in a wheelchair that goes around suing small business owners over our ADA laws. That's "Americans with Disabilities Act" statutes that require everything from specific dimensions in the stalls in the rest-rooms to accommodate wheelchair bound customers, to ramps to give an alternative to stairs, raised platforms, etc etc. This individual has actually caused a number of small businesses to shut down because their physical locations and space available made it impossible to meet the requirements, sometimes necessitating elevator installation to comply. Do you also have such regs?

Glenn

[lhopp77]

Very Troubling.......

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41293760...more_politics/

And before some of you point to the good Clinton years, remember that Republicans controlled Congress or the bad last Bush years when Democrats controlled Congress.

Now if this does not bother you---you "ain't" as intelligent as I thought you were.

Lee

[stevek]

@ RojoRocket
Very sorry for the slowest reply in internet history. So far, disabled access litigation hasn't made news here, yet. Someone once told me that we are about 10 years behind your lead, so who knows..

Happy New Year to you all!