A Gutsy Woman

[Trevor]

Maybe some of our polly's should take note of this. This woman should run for president.

Written by a housewife from New Jersey and it sounds like it!
This is one ticked off lady.

"Are we fighting a war on terror or aren't we? Was it, or was
it not, started by Islamic people who brought it to our shores
on September 11, 2001?

Were people from all over the world, mostly Americans, not
brutally murdered that day, in downtown Manhattan, across
the Potomac from our nation's capitol and in a field in Pennsylvania ?

Did nearly three thousand men, women and children die a horrible,
burning or crushing death that day, or didn't they?

And I'm supposed to care that a copy of the Koran was "desecrated",
when an overworked American soldier kicked it or got it wet? Well, I don't. I don't care at all.

I'll start caring when Osama bin Laden turns himself in and repents
for incinerating all those innocent people of 9/11.

I'll care about the Koran when the fanatics in the Middle East start
caring about the Holy Bible, the mere possession of which is a crime
in Saudi Arabia.

I'll care when these thugs tell the world they are sorry for hacking off
Nick Berg's head. while Berg screamed through his gurgling slashed throat.

I'll care when the cowardly so-called "insurgents" in Iraq come out and
fight like men, instead of disrespecting their own religion by hiding in
mosques.

I'll care when the mindless zealots who blow themselves up in search of
nirvana. care about the innocent children within range of their suicide
bombs.

I'll care when the American media stops pretending that their First
Amendment liberties are somehow derived from international law, instead
of the United States Constitution's Bill of Rights.

In the meantime, when I hear a story about a brave marine roughing up an
Iraqi terrorist to obtain information, know this. I don't care.
When I see a fuzzy photo of apile of naked Iraqi prisoners who have been
humiliated in what amounts to a college-hazing incident, rest assured,
I don't care.

When I see a wounded terrorist get shot in the head when he is told not
to move because he might be booby-trapped, you can take it to the bank.
I don't care.

When I hear that a prisoner, who was issued a Koran and a prayer mat,
and fed "special" food that is paid for by my tax dollars, is complaining
that his holy book is being "mishandled," you can absolutely believe in
your heart of hearts, I don't care.

And oh, by the way, I've noticed that sometimes it's spelled "Koran" and
other times "Quran." Well, Jimmy Crack Corn and you guessed it, I don't
care !!

If you agree with this viewpoint, pass this on to all your E-mail friends.
Sooner or later, it'll get to the people responsible for this ridiculous
behavior!

If you don't agree, then by all means hit the delete button.
Should you choose the latter, then please don't complain when more atrocities committed by radical Muslims happen here in our great Country! And may I add:

"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference
in the world. But, the Marines don't have that problem." -- Ronald Reagan

I have another quote that I would like to add:
"If we ever forget that we're One Nation Under God, then we will be a
nation gone under." --- Also by.. Ronald Reagan

One last thought for the day:

In case we find ourselves starting to believe all the Anti-American
sentiment and negativity, we should remember England 's Prime Minister Tony Blair's words during a recent interview. When asked by one of his Parliament members why he believes so much in America , he said:

"A simple way to take measure of a country is to look at how many want in, and how many want out."

[ensteele]

Thanks Trevor. My feelings as well. If others don't like it, well, you guessed it - I don't care.

[svxistentialist]

I like it Trevor, it's very interesting.

Most on here will know how I feel about 9/11, I'm still appalled and hurt. I have recently finished reading DeLillo's Falling Man, and for sure this book charts the scar on the American psyche that these bombings caused.

I have lived most of my adult life in a county where terrorism was a way of life. So has Danny in Lebanon.

The strength in that diatribe is mostly in the attitude, a non caring attitude.

The weakness in the argument is in the first paragraph. "Was it, or was it not started by...."

Absolutely naive. Like it came from nowhere?

You can't pin on a World Policeman badge, invade regions and send in the Marines, and NOT expect their lunatic fringe to come visit you and hit you on the exposed underbelly.

Terrorists don't play fair. They play dirty simply BECAUSE you have the biggest and the best army, and if they play by the rules, they will lose.

This Islamic business is not a problem that will be solved by a military or by any simplistic approach.

It needs more understanding and less overstatement.

Joe

[Trevor]

Originally Posted by svxistentialist

I like it Trevor, it's very interesting.

Most on here will know how I feel about 9/11, I'm still appalled and hurt. I have recently finished reading DeLillo's Falling Man, and for sure this book charts the scar on the American psyche that these bombings caused.

I have lived most of my adult life in a county where terrorism was a way of life. So has Danny in Lebanon.

The strength in that diatribe is mostly in the attitude, a non caring attitude.

The weakness in the argument is in the first paragraph. "Was it, or was it not started by...."

Absolutely naive. Like it came from nowhere?

You can't pin on a World Policeman badge, invade regions and send in the Marines, and NOT expect their lunatic fringe to come visit you and hit you on the exposed underbelly.

Terrorists don't play fair. They play dirty simply BECAUSE you have the biggest and the best army, and if they play by the rules, they will lose.

This Islamic business is not a problem that will be solved by a military or by any simplistic approach.

It needs more understanding and less overstatement.

Joe

Joe,

I understand where you are coming from but in line with all critics, you are unable to put forward an exact valid alternative. The suggestion is that after laying over backwards we should fall.

You say:- The weakness in the argument is in the first paragraph.--- "Was it, or was it not, started by Islamic people who brought it to our shores on September 11, 2001?” ---- Absolutely naive. Like it came from nowhere?

Please exactly explain why this is not a valid issue/fact.

You say:- “You can't pin on a World Policeman badge, invade regions and send in the Marines, and NOT expect their lunatic fringe to come visit you and hit you on the exposed underbelly”.

I say:- You CAN if you are brave in these circumstances, do not cringe, and ARE willing to stand up against a “lunatic fringe”. This surely is a virtue.

If all police were to ignore criminals, because they feared reprisals from the underworld towards, “the exposed underbelly” of the law abiding, local law and order would not exist. Exactly in what way is world order so different?

The free world (with noted exceptions), thankfully fought two World wars policing freedom and law and order, with many losing their lives. Not for the first time, is the world bravely dealing with a “Lunatic Fringe”.

You suggest that we should again, “understand” ,” understate”, bend, appease, ignore, so as to give the buggers a head start, as was done in the past. The cost and outcome of same is inscribed within history. We should not be suckers expecting and even break. Otherwise evil will ride on the conscious of goodness, unabated.

Sincerely, Trevor.

[newsvx]

Originally Posted by Trevor

Joe,

I understand where you are coming from but in line with all critics, you are unable to put forward an exact valid alternative. The suggestion is that after laying over backwards we should fall.

You say:- The weakness in the argument is in the first paragraph.--- "Was it, or was it not, started by Islamic people who brought it to our shores on September 11, 2001?” ---- Absolutely naive. Like it came from nowhere?

Please exactly explain why this is not a valid issue/fact.

You say:- “You can't pin on a World Policeman badge, invade regions and send in the Marines, and NOT expect their lunatic fringe to come visit you and hit you on the exposed underbelly”.

I say:- You CAN if you are brave in these circumstances, do not cringe, and ARE willing to stand up against a “lunatic fringe”. This surely is a virtue.

If all police were to ignore criminals, because they feared reprisals from the underworld towards, “the exposed underbelly” of the law abiding, local law and order would not exist. Exactly in what way is world order so different?

The free world (with noted exceptions), thankfully fought two World wars policing freedom and law and order, with many losing their lives. Not for the first time, is the world bravely dealing with a “Lunatic Fringe”.

You suggest that we should again, “understand” ,” understate”, bend, appease, ignore, so as to give the buggers a head start, as was done in the past. The cost and outcome of same is inscribed within history. We should not be suckers expecting and even break. Otherwise evil will ride on the conscious of goodness, unabated.

Sincerely, Trevor.

Trev,
I have to respectfully disagree with you and support Joe's comments. I am certain he will respond on his own, but the following are my views.

"started by Islamic people who brought it to our shores on September 11": Yes, the folks that did that terrible thing on Sep 11 were Islamic, HOWEVER, they were members of an extremist group of Islamic (and from Saudi Arabia). ALL religions have extremists. Note the Christians in Joe's land of the recent past. Or the killing of doctors here in America by Christian extremists because the doctor performed abortions (I don't agree with abortions either (except if the mother is in danger), but I would never kill someone for this reason). And considering the above and how terrible it is (I don't think anyone would disagree that these atrocities I mentioned are horrible and as bad as 911, differing only in degree).

"World Police": I personally don't believe we (America) should be invading another country (not withstanding the invalid reasons for doing so) unless attacked by that country or supporting an ally. I think any of us would be very pissed if someone invaded our country because they didn't like how we treated our people (or any other reason except if we attacked them - the country attacked). World War I and II were totally different from the war on terrorism. Countries invaded other countries and Allies responded. Okay, with 911 we were attacked, no question. However, Iraq did not attack us and had very, very little to do with the group that did. Afghanistan was completely different, because their government supported and gave cover for the group that attacked us on 911. We should have gone in there. Also police in any country are not the same as a country attempting to police the world. It is a question of what authority they have. America (or any other country) has not to my knowledge been given the authority (and who would give it, the UN?) to police the countries of the world. It is not going to happen. If it did, what if the authority was given to Russia? Or France? Or N. Korea? Would we roll over? NO.

I honestly do not believe that we (of the non-Islamic religions) understand Islam fully. But I do know that EVERY religion has extremists that the religion does not approve of. Christians, Jews, Islam. All of them. We will not beat back the extremist groups by military force - I know this from personal experience having retired from the Army in 1986 after 20 plus years of service. Today's world is so much different from years past. The battlefields have changed.
One other point that I have to say in response to the lady in NJ. It matters not how one looks at the way we (America) has treated prisoners in this fight against terrorism to see that some of the things done to to those prisoners in Iraq were horrible and unconscionable and against international law. Laws we have supported always!! More importantly, didn't we and the world decry and condemn similar conduct by our enemy in Vietnam. We certainly did. Bottom line here is don't expect any better from the enemy than you do to him. And if you treat him badly and unlawfully, he'll try to be even worse (yes, I know they already have on the battlefields of Iraq) We have always taken the high road in these matters, and I believe we should continue to do so. Having been on a battlefield, I know what the consequences can be. A soldier has no argument with his enemy if his army is conducting itself unlawfully (and immorally) against the enemy prisoners.

Sorry to go on so, but I had to speak up. And just so everyone know (full disclosure, you know), I voted for Mr. Bush the first time around, but did not vote for him for the second term. I respect everyone's opinion, but Joe's point re "overstating" the facts is very accurate, I think.

Harry

[Trevor]

Greetings Harry,

I fully appreciate your sentiments and agree with much of the detail, but the real issue remains. What is the specific valid alternative to some form of policing.

The Geneva Convention, the UN, or whatever/whoever, would/will/did never move decisively. After the greatest acts of benevolence recorded in history, the Japanese and the Germans would have to agree that USA and Gt. Britain have demonstrated the morals required in order to take up the cudgel.

As you point out the initiative was lost in respect of Afghanistan, but possibly something was learned in respect of the cost of delay. A stand had to be made, and a beach head has been established. Yes there have been and will be mistakes along the way, but the way is forwards. The gravest mistake would be surrender.

You point out that, “We will not beat back the extremist groups by military force”. Agreed, but stable political structures can do so, and this surely is the current object of intervention/policing. There is the faction which denies any rightful objective, saying freely appointed leaders are bad buggers, it was/is all corruption, Bush/Blair are a dishonest bastards, let us kneel and repent. From way down under I say

Again I repeat, “I understand where you are coming from but in line with all critics, you are unable to put forward an exact valid alternative. The suggestion is that after laying over backwards we should fall”.

Cheers Harry, now you can let me have it. Sincerely, Trevor

[newsvx]

Trevor, my friend,
Isn't it great to have a respectful discussion!

A viable alternative has to be political, not military. I thought Joe and I strongly implied that, but perhaps not strongly enough. Cultures being what they are all over the world, there will continue to be differences (the key is to understand those differences AND respect them - the lady from NJ does not respect anything that is not of her ilk). As for Iraq, a political structure as we have here (or down under with you) will probably never work, because of the culture. And it seems we are attempting to push our way upon the people there. And our folks have forgotten too that there are different styles / approaches to a democracy. There is such division, not only within Iraq, but the entire Middle East. Wars have not solved the problems in centuries, why should we think that will happen now?

And how about this for a "MISSED OPPORTUNITY"? The 911 event killed many, many Americans, yes, but do you know how many people from "other" countries were also killed by the terrorists? Many countries of the world had victims. What an opportunity (diplomatically) to "bring together" all of these countries united against the terrorist threat!!!!! Much better than war, don't you think? What do we have now? Very little support from the other countries around the world for the Iraq war and even Germany and Italy sueing the US for the unlawful actions of our CIA in abducting "suspected" terrorist off the street and hauling them away to secret prisons. Can you imagine the outcry if that was to happen in your country or mine by say Russia (or Iran)?

You mention the morals demonstrated by the US and GB. Absolutely agree, and that gets to my point: we momentarily forgot those morals in Iraq with the prisoner issues / abuse. We CAN NOT expect our POW's to be well treated if we fail to do so ourselves. I absolutely hate the "do as I say, but not as I do" approach.

Surrender in Iraq is NOT what I am suggesting, but rather a different (and I hope a better) approach. Again, a military approach will just not work alone. There has to be a diplomatic aspect of this (not withstanding that we never should have invaded (yes, it was an invasion) Iraq in the first place. Heck, with the Air Force overflying almost all of Iraq on a daily basis, what was Sadam going to do? Why put boots on the ground? Work with the neighboring countries (even Iran). That's the alternative (even recommended by the independent study group that Bush and company essentially ignored in the beginning but is now doing more in the diplomatic arena, as recommended, in the region (spurred on by even members of his own party now.
Trev, I am not "saying freely appointed leaders are bad buggers". They were elected, but that does not mean they are competent OR can bring all of the different factions together. To date, they certainly have not.

Again, I just have a real problem with invading a country without being attacked by that country first. That's makes us as bad as Germany and Japan in WW II. Additionally, I personally KNOW what this Iraq war has done to our military (especially the Army) since I still have friends and relatives in the Army. I know how over extended the Armed Forces are, how soldiers have to return to Iraq in six months following their regular tour because there is not the numbers in the service to allow longer times back home. Even with Vietnam, we had at least a year home, usually. WW II was a very different matter due to the magnitude of the war - troops were gone for years before returning home, and we were fighting on multiple fronts. But my point here is that this Iraq war has done a job on our understrength armed forces. And it could have been handled so much better BEFORE we invaded, and certainly since we have been there. You have no idea just how disappointed I am in our present administration!

The suggestion is not "The suggestion is that after laying over backwards we should fall", but rather be smart and pro-active in the diplomatic arena so we don't have to have our armed forces at risk on a battlefield.

Respectfully, back at you .....
Harry

[lhopp77]

I also thank you Trevor. You are saying it better and definitely more calmly than I could or would. Maybe we now know who that brave woman's target was in addition to the radical muslims and their supporters.

Lee

[NikFu S.]

When I see a wounded terrorist get shot in the head when he is told not
to move because he might be booby-trapped,

Problem. You can't just label someone a terrorist without cause. This is a problem because we are teaching the less informed around us that anyone matching a certain criteria, based on appearance alone, is warrant for prejudice. I would not be surprised if this woman's children (as if any man could put up with her ****) would call out anybody wearing a turban.

"If we ever forget that we're One Nation Under God, then we will be a
nation gone under." --- Also by.. Ronald Reagan

Problem. God has nothing to do with running a nation. If it/He did, we would be waging a holy war, not an oily war. This war is based on capitalism, is bred and supported by one thing: capitalism.
Capitalism is running out of control in this country. There was a time when I cared, when I would have supported any reason for anyone to become impossibly rich, but when I learned that the common man is disadvantaged for the gain of a few bloated meatheads, and that I was a common man among common men, I lost interest in the interest of interests.
Perhaps this is a nation under Gods, continually shaped by the dollar, and the common men under employ of these bloated, excrement factories of the super-elite.

--

I for one care about the inborn human rights of all people, though I do believe the Islamic religion is an ancient relic, worthless in today's world and would like to see it abolished, I do not believe genocide is the answer.

It's a fact that I do not care about a lot of the things mentioned, but I hardly agree with this woman's viewpoint. These are the kind of ideals displayed through a truly egotistical, if not heretical mind. I can't believe the absolute hypocracy of a woman who on one hand claims to live under God, yet condones such inhumane action. This alone is a testament to the complete perversion of this woman's, if not this nation's own popular religion.

9/11 was a horrible tragedy, I suppose. I have not cared one iota since I saw the buildings tumble down that day on TV, during class. Why should I? People died? So what? That's a part of life.
The country was attacked? So what? How many countries have we attacked, how many millions of lives have we destroyed? To me, the 9/11 incident hardly balanced the scale out of our favor. These people using it as a crutch to wage their social and political wars are childish hate-mongering buffoons. You find it so easy to judge, and it seems so simple to you to find blame for the incident, to hate a single atrocity, whilst IGNORING every other atrocity on the planet, including the ones we bring upon ourselves within our own borders.
Such utter hypocracy and blind selecting judgement is why I have lost faith in people. It's why I don't care.
Don't hassle me about MY beliefs, if you can agree with this balloon headed travesty of a decent human being, you blithering idiots!

It's a certain shame she has not been lobbied to have her repoductive organs removed for such thoughtlessness, and some would have her voted into office? This is quite an example in blind faith in one's self and people resembling one's self and while I do admire her ability to voice her opinion, there is no way to expect she can do any better than that.
A woman such as this would doom whoever she is charged to lead.

To feign a course for justice, merely shrouded imperialism, is truly detestable. This "war" was never about justice.
It was about flexing US steroidal muscles. It's a show for the bored, and wicked. How simple it would be to comb Afghanistan with a great lumbering ground force and catch this supposed threat. How close we came at Tora Bora. How close indeed.
How close the war was to end. But no, we needed a show of force, we needed to stretch the legs of dusty equipment, so the campaign for Saddam was inititiated, COMPLETELY unrelated to 9/11 and the "search" for Bin Laden.

I guess I am of the minority of outspoken people. People like myself are often afraid to stand up and speak their opinion. Then again, if they are afraid, they are not like myself. In this way I am better than them, but will I find praise? Will some random soul find my words so entrancing that they will be sent around the internet, around the world for everyone read and needlesly applaude? I doubt it, for the people whom agree with me are meek and fearful, and refuse to be seen as deviants by the despots who would label them so.
Well, if this is the case, I AM a deviant, and I mock, defy, and despise everyone who would stand against me, because I CARE about what people think say and do, for I am a person.

[NikFu S.]

"Are we fighting a war on terror or aren't we?"

You tell me.

--

Marine tells of order to execute Haditha women and children
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20070831...dGpgAAUBlg.3QA


"CAMP PENDLETON, California (AFP) - A US Marine was ordered to execute a room full of terrified Iraqi women and children during an alleged massacre in Haditha that left 24 people dead, a military court heard Thursday.

The testimony came in the opening of a preliminary hearing for Marine Sergeant Frank Wuterich, who faces 17 counts of murder over the Haditha killings, the most serious war crimes allegations faced by US troops in Iraq."

[newsvx]

Originally Posted by NikFu S.

Problem. You can't just label someone a terrorist without cause. This is a problem because we are teaching the less informed around us that anyone matching a certain criteria, based on appearance alone, is warrant for prejudice. I would not be surprised if this woman's children (as if any man could put up with her ****) would call out anybody wearing a turban.


Problem. God has nothing to do with running a nation. If it/He did, we would be waging a holy war, not an oily war. This war is based on capitalism, is bred and supported by one thing: capitalism.
Capitalism is running out of control in this country. There was a time when I cared, when I would have supported any reason for anyone to become impossibly rich, but when I learned that the common man is disadvantaged for the gain of a few bloated meatheads, and that I was a common man among common men, I lost interest in the interest of interests.
Perhaps this is a nation under Gods, continually shaped by the dollar, and the common men under employ of these bloated, excrement factories of the super-elite.

--

I for one care about the inborn human rights of all people, though I do believe the Islamic religion is an ancient relic, worthless in today's world and would like to see it abolished, I do not believe genocide is the answer.

It's a fact that I do not care about a lot of the things mentioned, but I hardly agree with this woman's viewpoint. These are the kind of ideals displayed through a truly egotistical, if not heretical mind. I can't believe the absolute hypocracy of a woman who on one hand claims to live under God, yet condones such inhumane action. This alone is a testament to the complete perversion of this woman's, if not this nation's own popular religion.

9/11 was a horrible tragedy, I suppose. I have not cared one iota since I saw the buildings tumble down that day on TV, during class. Why should I? People died? So what? That's a part of life.
The country was attacked? So what? How many countries have we attacked, how many millions of lives have we destroyed? To me, the 9/11 incident hardly balanced the scale out of our favor. These people using it as a crutch to wage their social and political wars are childish hate-mongering buffoons. You find it so easy to judge, and it seems so simple to you to find blame for the incident, to hate a single atrocity, whilst IGNORING every other atrocity on the planet, including the ones we bring upon ourselves within our own borders.
Such utter hypocracy and blind selecting judgement is why I have lost faith in people. It's why I don't care.
Don't hassle me about MY beliefs, if you can agree with this balloon headed travesty of a decent human being, you blithering idiots!

It's a certain shame she has not been lobbied to have her repoductive organs removed for such thoughtlessness, and some would have her voted into office? This is quite an example in blind faith in one's self and people resembling one's self and while I do admire her ability to voice her opinion, there is no way to expect she can do any better than that.
A woman such as this would doom whoever she is charged to lead.

To feign a course for justice, merely shrouded imperialism, is truly detestable. This "war" was never about justice.
It was about flexing US steroidal muscles. It's a show for the bored, and wicked. How simple it would be to comb Afghanistan with a great lumbering ground force and catch this supposed threat. How close we came at Tora Bora. How close indeed.
How close the war was to end. But no, we needed a show of force, we needed to stretch the legs of dusty equipment, so the campaign for Saddam was inititiated, COMPLETELY unrelated to 9/11 and the "search" for Bin Laden.

I guess I am of the minority of outspoken people. People like myself are often afraid to stand up and speak their opinion. Then again, if they are afraid, they are not like myself. In this way I am better than them, but will I find praise? Will some random soul find my words so entrancing that they will be sent around the internet, around the world for everyone read and needlesly applaude? I doubt it, for the people whom agree with me are meek and fearful, and refuse to be seen as deviants by the despots who would label them so.
Well, if this is the case, I AM a deviant, and I mock, defy, and despise everyone who would stand against me, because I CARE about what people think say and do, for I am a person.

Well said, however, I guess I would not say it quite as strongly as you. That said, I probably should be louder in my arguments re this issue. And I think you can trust that there are many that agree with us in this regard. You are not alone. Look at all of the ones in Bush's party now distancing themselves from him. And the polls (although I hate polls) certainly show the displeasure for this approach this administration has against terrorism.

But I think you hit the nail on the head re the lady (I use the term loosely) in NJ - her apparent Christian bent is certainly counter to what she is preaching. Another "do as I say, not as I do".

Harry

[NikFu S.]

Originally Posted by newsvx

And I think you can trust that there are many that agree with us in this regard.

I know. One of my best friends is about as boisterous as I am on the issue, as well are the people I grabbed that link from. I was merely hoping to incite such people that might feel underpowered, and providing a bar to reach.

[lhopp77]

Originally Posted by NikFu S.

I for one care about the inborn human rights of all people, though I do believe the Islamic religion is an ancient relic, worthless in today's world and would like to see it abolished, I do not believe genocide is the answer.

9/11 was a horrible tragedy, I suppose. I have not cared one iota since I saw the buildings tumble down that day on TV, during class. Why should I? People died? So what? That's a part of life.
The country was attacked? So what? How many countries have we attacked, how many millions of lives have we destroyed?

Your statements appear contradictory, but then of course I know you are just kidding.

If it was your scrawny little butt, I bet you would care.

Lee

[iceman039]

Originally Posted by NikFu S.

Problem. You can't just label someone a terrorist without cause. This is a problem because we are teaching the less informed around us that anyone matching a certain criteria, based on appearance alone, is warrant for prejudice. I would not be surprised if this woman's children (as if any man could put up with her ****) would call out anybody wearing a turban.


Problem. God has nothing to do with running a nation. If it/He did, we would be waging a holy war, not an oily war. This war is based on capitalism, is bred and supported by one thing: capitalism.
Capitalism is running out of control in this country. There was a time when I cared, when I would have supported any reason for anyone to become impossibly rich, but when I learned that the common man is disadvantaged for the gain of a few bloated meatheads, and that I was a common man among common men, I lost interest in the interest of interests.
Perhaps this is a nation under Gods, continually shaped by the dollar, and the common men under employ of these bloated, excrement factories of the super-elite.

--

I for one care about the inborn human rights of all people, though I do believe the Islamic religion is an ancient relic, worthless in today's world and would like to see it abolished, I do not believe genocide is the answer.

It's a fact that I do not care about a lot of the things mentioned, but I hardly agree with this woman's viewpoint. These are the kind of ideals displayed through a truly egotistical, if not heretical mind. I can't believe the absolute hypocracy of a woman who on one hand claims to live under God, yet condones such inhumane action. This alone is a testament to the complete perversion of this woman's, if not this nation's own popular religion.

9/11 was a horrible tragedy, I suppose. I have not cared one iota since I saw the buildings tumble down that day on TV, during class. Why should I? People died? So what? That's a part of life.
The country was attacked? So what? How many countries have we attacked, how many millions of lives have we destroyed? To me, the 9/11 incident hardly balanced the scale out of our favor. These people using it as a crutch to wage their social and political wars are childish hate-mongering buffoons. You find it so easy to judge, and it seems so simple to you to find blame for the incident, to hate a single atrocity, whilst IGNORING every other atrocity on the planet, including the ones we bring upon ourselves within our own borders.
Such utter hypocracy and blind selecting judgement is why I have lost faith in people. It's why I don't care.
Don't hassle me about MY beliefs, if you can agree with this balloon headed travesty of a decent human being, you blithering idiots!

It's a certain shame she has not been lobbied to have her repoductive organs removed for such thoughtlessness, and some would have her voted into office? This is quite an example in blind faith in one's self and people resembling one's self and while I do admire her ability to voice her opinion, there is no way to expect she can do any better than that.
A woman such as this would doom whoever she is charged to lead.

To feign a course for justice, merely shrouded imperialism, is truly detestable. This "war" was never about justice.
It was about flexing US steroidal muscles. It's a show for the bored, and wicked. How simple it would be to comb Afghanistan with a great lumbering ground force and catch this supposed threat. How close we came at Tora Bora. How close indeed.
How close the war was to end. But no, we needed a show of force, we needed to stretch the legs of dusty equipment, so the campaign for Saddam was inititiated, COMPLETELY unrelated to 9/11 and the "search" for Bin Laden.

I guess I am of the minority of outspoken people. People like myself are often afraid to stand up and speak their opinion. Then again, if they are afraid, they are not like myself. In this way I am better than them, but will I find praise? Will some random soul find my words so entrancing that they will be sent around the internet, around the world for everyone read and needlesly applaude? I doubt it, for the people whom agree with me are meek and fearful, and refuse to be seen as deviants by the despots who would label them so.
Well, if this is the case, I AM a deviant, and I mock, defy, and despise everyone who would stand against me, because I CARE about what people think say and do, for I am a person.

While this war is based on oil/control, it has nothing to do with capitalism. you are blaming capitalism -- the reason why there are so many opportunities in this country -- for problems rooted much deeper within our system of checks and balances. We need to limit the power of special interests, however, your assumption that all capitalists are "bloated meatheads" is a fallacy.

I despise bush and his lies that got us stuck in a country we never should have been in. It still blows my mind how you claim that we deserved 911, and that while you have such humanity for others, you have zero sympathy for your fellow americans who died.

I hear a lot of name calling, but few logical points, and even fewer solutions. Judging by your statements, I can derive that you would go to a more socialist government, meaning more taxes and more government control. How would this help your problem with our imperialistic tendancies? It wouldn't, it would make it worse. A more logical solution would be to adopt more local government, with less Federal control. Kind of like the Articles of Confederation.

[Trevor]

Originally Posted by newsvx

Trevor, my friend,
Isn't it great to have a respectful discussion!

Respectfully, back at you .....
Harry

Harry I agree with all you now have to say. It should not be assumed that I agree with all the lady was on about. What concerns me is that too much negativity could take hold.

It was, has been, and is a mess, but the effort must continue with past mistakes learned. As you say there are signs of such. The west can never fully understand, but if a fair court of play can be established, there could be hope of correction/adjuatment from within.

My point is that there must be a referee/policeman. Even a bad but learning one, is better than none at all. Above all the volunteer must remain confident and should not become stabbed in the back.

Best wishes, Trevor.