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  #1  
Old 05-21-2001, 01:50 PM
zollinw
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I've been waiting to ask some pilots for their thought on "avblend". They make an additive for cars now and I wondered if it was any good. Any opinions? Thanks. Bill
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  #2  
Old 05-21-2001, 02:03 PM
lightning_8669
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<<I wondered if it was any good. Any opinions? Thanks. Bill>>

Take what you want from a non-expert here but I'll give you what I know.

Aviation oils have a lot of stuff in them to prevent corrosion of engine parts. That's mainly because planes sit around most of the time unused and like to rust. Which might make the AV Blend suitable for collector cars that are parked in garages most of the time. The other thing is that there isn't a big aviation market which might be part of the motivation for Shell to get into the automotive market place to make it more worth their while to produce the stuff. I know aviation oils have all sorts of dispersants and low ash considerations and I have no idea how that translates to auto use. There aren't too many companies that produce lubricants for general aviation use, not like cars at least. The federal government regulates what you can put in an airplane including fuel and oils. This does not mean they are held to any higher standard it just means they meet and continue to adhere to requirements.

Not sure if this helps or not. Bottom line is cars and planes are quite different. Shell might be trying to sell something on the basis of it being good enough for flying it should certainly be good enough for just driving around. The dynamics of the engines and what is required of them is very different, however. For instance I know you wouldn't want to burn aviation fuel in your car. Bad idea.
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  #3  
Old 05-21-2001, 02:16 PM
zollinw
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Thanks for your reply. For cars the stuff is called "zMAX". I don't know how to set up a link, but their address is www.zmax.com . Bill
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  #4  
Old 05-21-2001, 02:18 PM
zollinw
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Hey, it does it automatically! Isn't that amazing. Bill
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  #5  
Old 05-21-2001, 02:35 PM
lightning_8669
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Looks interesting. But you can't put it in an airplane. At least not legally. I think they are using their AVblend for marketing purposes. However, they may have borrowed some of the aviation oil chemistry to produce the product. They say it gets into the metal and cleans out carbon and varnish. Sounds like detergent to me. I don't know how "slippery" these little molecules are but there are something like six purposes for oil in an engine. Lubricate, cushion, cool, clean, corrosion ressistance I think are most of the important ones. Part of the "cushion" comes in an oil's ability to reduce shear. The molecules are really strands and the stronger the strands the better the cushion. Basically they don't move out of the way and sort of bear the brunt of the forces. Gasoline molecules don't provide much cushion, for instance, because they are smaller.

But I'm not a chemist. I doubt they would sell something that would ruin your engine. However, I'd be interested in seeing what kind of results you would get. Might be one of those long term things regarding wear. Subaur engines wear remarkably well even without changing oil ever 3K miles. I go 6K regurlarly without ever having a problem. 247,000 miles on my last one an it is still running with over 250,000.
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  #6  
Old 05-21-2001, 02:46 PM
zollinw
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Yes, I thought it sounded interesting, but for now will likely stick to regular changes of Mobil 1. With avblend's apparently long history of use, and endorsments from Dick Rutan, I wondered if aviators thought "it was the greatest thing ever" and "so good I would definately use it in my car now that it is available." Thanks. Bill
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  #7  
Old 05-21-2001, 03:03 PM
lightning_8669
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No problem. Just for your information also, Mobile makes synthetic aviation oil. I need to clarify what I said earlier about not being able to use the AVblend additive in an airplane. You can't use it in a factory built airplane. If you build a plane in your shed you have more flexibility in what you do as far as that goes. I also forgot something else oil does. It carries contaminates to the filter and out the drain. However, because of the combustion processes acids build up in the oil and cannot be filtered out, this happens before it breaks down as a lubricant. If you leave your oil in too long the acids will build to a level that will damage seals and gaskets and you will see a lot of leaks. Mobil One will not break down as a lubricant as quick as organic oils but it still can't carry more acids. Food for thought if you plan on leaving your oil in for 12,000 miles or something crazy like that.
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  #8  
Old 05-22-2001, 04:28 AM
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Oil Changes

OK,
NOw that we're on the subject of oil, a friend uses Mobil 1 and changes his oil every 10K. I use Cast. GTX and change it every 3K. Who's right? He gets to wait longer and gets the 'benefits' of syth. I get 'clean' oil every 2 months.

- Jeff
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  #9  
Old 05-22-2001, 05:35 AM
lightning_8669
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<<Who's right? >>

Umm, you're both wrong. While changing your oil every 3000 miles will not hurt anything you are likely wasting your time and money. If you look at the maintenance schedule for the car it is very aggressive concerning fluid changes. This includes everything from brake, differential, coolant, etc. I really doubt they would have you change your oil less often than necessary. I think they recommend 6000-7000 miles depending on conditions and habits. I've changed mine about every 6000 miles on all my Subarus and have never had a problem. And I don't drive kindly.

Your friend on the other hand is setting himself up for problems. While Mobile 1 will stay slippery for up to 12000 miles it will be so full of acid build up that he will likely start seeing seal and gasket leaks before long. These acids will make the seals hard and brittle. If a main seal fails oil pressure is compromised and it doesn't matter how slippery it is if it doesn't make it to the area needing lubrication. Not to mention the mess on the car and driveway from all that expensive oil draining on it.

A good filter and new oil every 6000 miles and you should be okay. But the oil barons will take your money if you give it to them.
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  #10  
Old 05-22-2001, 09:06 AM
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Who's Right?

Here's an excellent commentary from one of our friends "'cross the pond."

http://www.geocities.com/chrislonghu...oil_bible.html

For the record, my '92 owner's manual recommends an initial oil change when your clock hits 3,000 miles or your calender hits 3 months (whichever comes first). Subsequently it recommends (as do most car manufacturers) that you change your oil every . . . are you ready for this . . . 7,500 miles or 7.5 months (whichever comes first). I generally change mine somewhere between 3K and 5K, just for peace of mind.
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  #11  
Old 05-22-2001, 10:51 AM
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Wow! Wow!

That sure answers that question. Great. I'll stop changing my oil every 3K (like the lube places say) immediately! I like the every three months thing, though I may go for the 6K on my high mileage car.

Thanks!!!!!
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  #12  
Old 05-22-2001, 01:08 PM
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Hmmm.....

PERSONALLY and don't get me wrong...you can do whatever you like on your engines...but I would stick with the 3000 mile method. I guess it really depends on the oil going in...but oil breaks down bad after a while. This is the acid reference you are talking about. I've used both Mobil 1 and GTX for a really long time and have changed them at 3000 religiously. I've never seen any problems. I know a few of my friends that would rather extend the time like they say and go for 6-8000. Both of which are easier than on their cars than I am...and both of which have had major engine failures at a little over 95K miles. I totally agree however that 10K is WAY to much for an oil change. I look at it this way, if I change my oil every 3 months, I'm only spending an extra $60 a year extra on my car. Considerably cheaper if I don't go synthetic. I figure if it gets me an extra year or two on my engine before I have something that costs me a $1000 to fix....it did it's job.

Ryan
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  #13  
Old 05-22-2001, 02:03 PM
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<<PERSONALLY and don't get me wrong...you can do whatever you like on your engines...but I would stick with the 3000 mile method. I guess it really depends on the oil going in>>

I'm sure we'll find varied opinions here. We can all cite examples of pro/con. I have not always been as diligent in maintaining my cars as I have this one. But all have done me well. Most of my early vehicles I would change oil "when I thought about it." My '64 Fairlaine had 195K on it when I sold it. Engine was still running strong. My favorite example was a '73 LTD we'd bought from a friend with 150K on it. It was another "when I thought about it" car. We drove the car for a few years and I never had a moment's trouble with it, until the manifold gaskets strarted leaking and fumes were coming into the cabin. I decided to sell it to a guy who wanted the 351 Windsor engine to put in his pickup truck. I sold him the whole car for 100.00. I mean, what can you expect to get out of a car with 365K on the engine. As far as I know, the motor's still running today. Now, I'm not using this as a testimony for neglect, but, especially with the technological advances in motors and lubricants we see today, the 3K "rule" invented by "Jiffy Lubes" and Service Departments is way too aggressive. I believe that the manufacturers (especially with the liability issues they face) better know the "needs" of their product than the oil producers. And, if their recommendation is 7,500 miles, then, they're not going to risk the liability of recommending you blow your engine by under-lubricating it. Meanwhile, the Consumer Report's "New York Taxi-Cab test" several years ago, bore out the fact that viscosity breakdown did not occur significantly until, around, the 7,500 mile mark (several brands of oil were tested), which was the basis for their "Myth vs. Reality" response on their site:
http://www.consumerreports.org/Speci.../0104myt0.html

But, like you said, do what you will. If it gives you peace of mind, change every 3K, or 2K for that matter. Just know that it's peace of mind you're paying that extra 65.00 for, and not, necessarily insurance for your engine. And, as a side bar, yes, I think 10K is way to long to wait too. Especially when recommended intervals are at 7,500.

One more reference from Consumer Reports, and I'll shut up.

http://www.consumerreports.org/Categ...s/0010oil0.htm


[This long post dedicated to the memory of blonde_man, wherever he may be. ]
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1992 SVX PPG Pace Car Replica 110+k
1993 White Impreza L 240+K miles
2001 Legacy Outback Limited Sedan 250+K miles
2013 Deep Indigo Pearl Legacy 3.6R 49+K miles

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Last edited by Aredubjay; 05-22-2001 at 02:17 PM.
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  #14  
Old 05-22-2001, 02:40 PM
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Thumbs up Zmax

Hey Zollin, I have been using ZMAX in my 00 Impreza RS right after a 1000 mile break in period. It seemed to give the car a small increase in fuel mileage. I was using Mobil 1 but have since switched to Amsoil synthetic. As far as the long term affect on engine where from the product, I have no idea if it will help. The car already has 25k on it. If it helps the Mpg's alone over the life of the car I think it is worth it.
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  #15  
Old 05-22-2001, 02:44 PM
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< right after a 1000 mile break in period. It seemed to give the car a small increase in fuel mileage >

I would think the slight increase would be your car just breaking in. I can't say I've ever bought a new car personally, however my new motorcycle did the same thing after about 1500miles or so. I actually drive it harder than new and tend to get better mileage anyways. Just my guess...they say the same for sythentics...but I've been using them for years and have seen little to no increase whatsoever in everything I've put them in.

Ryan
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