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  #31  
Old 05-11-2005, 10:09 AM
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mbtoloczko mbtoloczko is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svxfiles
Mychailo, do you think phenolic spacers would lean the mixture due to lower intake manifold temps?

And what were the ambiant temps?

I want one too.
The phenolic spacers shouldn't affect the afr. No matter how hot or cool the air gets after the MAF, the MAF is still correctly measuring the amount of air that's going into the motor.

Outside air temp was around 55-60F.
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SVX Mods: ND iridium spark plugs, Impreza RS fpr, afr tuned to 13.2:1 using a custom MAF bypass, custom exhaust, WRX 5MT w/ STi RA 1st-4th gear & stock WRX 5th gear, Exedy 13 lb flywheel & Sport Clutch, STi Group N tranny & engine mounts, urethane spacers in rear subframe, rear diff mounts, and pitch stopper, SVX Sport Strut Springs (185f/150r), custom 19 mm rear swaybar, urethane swaybar mounts, Rota Torque 17x8", 225/45-17 Proxes 4 tires, Axxis Deluxe Plus organic brake pads.
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  #32  
Old 05-11-2005, 08:38 PM
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Chiketkd Chiketkd is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbtoloczko
Chike,

I have that same fuel consumption vs cylinder pressure plot in my locker. :-) As far as I know, the 2.5 RS fpr is working fine. I haven't looked at the vacuum line though. I haven't touched the fuel pump in any way. I suppose its possible that the ram air is having some effect, but keep in mind that the ecu does not just blindly add fuel. It meters fuel based on the MAF sensor reading (among other readings), so if the ram air is somehow messing up airflow at high rpm, the MAF would see this, and the ecu would add less fuel accordingly.

I'm fairly convinced that the afr reading is representative of what the SVX ecu is programmed to do. The other EG33 afr readouts from dyno runs that I've seen (SVXRide, LAN) show the afr progressively richening as the rpms increase. And if I look at the afr readings from your dyno runs, I see the same basic trend too. The afr on your car does richen as the rpms increase, and at peak rpm, there is a slight lean out. My afr runs show the same thing, and so do LANs.

As deruvian said, a little more power may be possible with the 2.5RS fpr by leaning out the mixture a bit at higher rpm using an SAFC-II (or something like it).
Mychailo,

While the SVX ECU richens the afr to a degree in the upper rpms, the increase you got above 5000 rpms was much larger than I expected. I guess I'll have to see your runs with the SVX fpr before any definite conclusions can be drawn...

I must say, I've always been wary of non-factory ram-air systems - and I still wonder if your system might not have supplied enough air to the engine above 5,000rpms (which in turn would have richened the afr). As you did your runs in 3rd gear in a 5spd car, you must have been going 90+mph as you approached redline. At these speeds, the air flow over your car would have caused more 'pronounced' regions of low and high pressure to form - and if your ram-air was placed in a non-ideal location (e.g. hole at bottom of the inner fender per Terry's SVX FAQ), air would be sucked out and not in at those speeds...

If possible, while you still have the Impreza fpr installed, repeat your wideband afr test - this time in 2nd gear and on a level road. I'd be interested in seeing whether your results will be the same.

-Chike
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  #33  
Old 05-11-2005, 08:58 PM
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Chiketkd Chiketkd is offline
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Took some pics of my exhuast tip...

...after having the Impreza fpr installed on my car for over 4 weeks and doing some wot runs today:



For comparison, I took a pic of the tip on my wife's stock '02 Lancer ES:



While my tips have more visible soot in them, modded turbo'd cars (WRXs, Evo's, SRT-4's) running afr's in the 12:1-11:1 range normally have the stuff caked on in there...

-Chike
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  #34  
Old 05-13-2005, 09:24 PM
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I've made a nasty little discovery you won't be too happy to hear. Anyone that was paying attention to the stage III development thread want to guess what's responsible for that lean out above peak power at 5600ish rpms? I'm about to get into doing the final software for stage III so I'll have exact #'s for you soon to verify this (I've made some guesses and interpolations here and there in the prototype software)...but it seems the factory mass air meter actually maxes out in a stock svx. The afr plots go north above 5600 rpms because the maf meter is maxed out.




Quote:
Originally Posted by mbtoloczko
Chike,

I have that same fuel consumption vs cylinder pressure plot in my locker. :-) As far as I know, the 2.5 RS fpr is working fine. I haven't looked at the vacuum line though. I haven't touched the fuel pump in any way. I suppose its possible that the ram air is having some effect, but keep in mind that the ecu does not just blindly add fuel. It meters fuel based on the MAF sensor reading (among other readings), so if the ram air is somehow messing up airflow at high rpm, the MAF would see this, and the ecu would add less fuel accordingly.

I'm fairly convinced that the afr reading is representative of what the SVX ecu is programmed to do. The other EG33 afr readouts from dyno runs that I've seen (SVXRide, LAN) show the afr progressively richening as the rpms increase. And if I look at the afr readings from your dyno runs, I see the same basic trend too. The afr on your car does richen as the rpms increase, and at peak rpm, there is a slight lean out. My afr runs show the same thing, and so do LANs.

As deruvian said, a little more power may be possible with the 2.5RS fpr by leaning out the mixture a bit at higher rpm using an SAFC-II (or something like it).
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  #35  
Old 05-13-2005, 10:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by longassname
The afr plots go north above 5600 rpms because the maf meter is maxed out.
Holy cow! That'll be crazy if a relatively stock 230+hp EG33 can max out the MAF!!!

-Chike
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  #36  
Old 05-14-2005, 01:51 AM
deruvian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by longassname
I've made a nasty little discovery you won't be too happy to hear. Anyone that was paying attention to the stage III development thread want to guess what's responsible for that lean out above peak power at 5600ish rpms? I'm about to get into doing the final software for stage III so I'll have exact #'s for you soon to verify this (I've made some guesses and interpolations here and there in the prototype software)...but it seems the factory mass air meter actually maxes out in a stock svx. The afr plots go north above 5600 rpms because the maf meter is maxed out.
LAN, my new question to you is: Would it be beneficial to try and mount an upgraded MAF meter on a stock SVX, if the OEM meter is maxed out in stock form? Getting that top-end AFR leaned out on a stock SVX might show some slight power gains at peak horsepower RPMs. THAT is always a nice thing. Please, educate us on the subject.
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  #37  
Old 05-14-2005, 12:46 PM
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And if installing an upgraded MAF (like your Nissan one) would make a difference on a stock (or slightly modified) SVX would it be possible for you to release another version of the Stage 1 code calibrated for a certain upgraded MAF?
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  #38  
Old 05-14-2005, 03:35 PM
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LAN,

I'm going to add myself back to the OBDII Stage 1 sign-up list as a 'possible'. If your chip can make the necessary corrections for the MAF, richen the afr to around 12.3:1-12.5:1 in the upper rpms and only slightly advance the timing...I'm in.

-Chike
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  #39  
Old 05-14-2005, 09:13 PM
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mbtoloczko, since you have the get up to log analog data with your wideband software how about logging the maf signal? It's the wire. That'll be a quick and true way to see if the maf is in fact maxing out at 5600 rpms. The max will be 4.8 volts not 5.12. I'm curious to see if the meter goes up to the full 5.12 or not but anything at 4.8 or above will read the same in the software. The table values for 4.8, 4.88, 5.6, & 5.12 are all ffff-it's maxed out mathmatically whether the hardware is maxed out or not.
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  #40  
Old 05-14-2005, 09:59 PM
alltrac alltrac is offline
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Time for a Z32 MAF
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  #41  
Old 05-15-2005, 06:47 AM
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Chiketkd Chiketkd is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alltrac
Time for a Z32 MAF
I'd hold off on that until LAN has released his OBDII Stage 1 chip. Depending on the capabilities of his tuning software, his performance ECU may be able to take into account voltages above 4.80...

Either way, if you change the MAF, the ECU would need to be re-programmed. Maybe LAN would be able to release two chips - one for the stock MAF, and one compatible with a Z32 MAF.

-Chike
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  #42  
Old 05-15-2005, 03:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by longassname
I've made a nasty little discovery you won't be too happy to hear. Anyone that was paying attention to the stage III development thread want to guess what's responsible for that lean out above peak power at 5600ish rpms? I'm about to get into doing the final software for stage III so I'll have exact #'s for you soon to verify this (I've made some guesses and interpolations here and there in the prototype software)...but it seems the factory mass air meter actually maxes out in a stock svx. The afr plots go north above 5600 rpms because the maf meter is maxed out.
This does not suprize me one bit. Got any ideas for a fix?
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  #43  
Old 05-16-2005, 02:23 AM
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This 'discovery',

Bad, bad bad news for 5mt cars today, great news for all cars tomorrow! Raising the rpm limit is useless if the SVX maf is maxed at the power peak at 5600 rpm. I always felt that my 4EAT car was strong until 5600, and then just going nowhere and wasting time up to the shift at redline, relatively speaking. Do the 5 speeds feel flat from 6000 rpm up?

Would the SVX have a higher power peak in stock form with a bigger MAF?
With a bigger MAF and upgraded injectors? Let's hope we find out

This 'nasty little discovery' is actually good news for the future of 'LAN inspired' SVX power. EACH STAGE MUST COME WITH AN UPGRADED MAF [or programming for a 'standardized' upgraded maf], UNLESS LOW SPEED POWER AND DRIVABILITY IS THE ONLY GOAL. [NOT!]

Stages 1 and II could also provide upgraded [affordable] injectors if the stock injectors are near maxed as believed. Stage !!! already has the MAF, monster injectors and fuel pump, solving the limitation.

If each Stage supplies the same 'standardized' MAF and the appropriate injectors for the Stage, the door is open to experiment with rpm, cam timing, airflow, increased displacement, etc, etc. Stage 1 should have enough MAF and injector to support 300+ hp, a 30% gain.

Consider the SVX possibilities!!!

Anyone wanting more NA power than stock MUST HAVE STAGE 1 as a foundation. Anyone wanting max power will need STAGE !!!

Current Stage 1 programming is delivering power and drivability in the lower ranges, but the MAF 'discovery' opens the door to kicking up power to redline and beyond. Stage 1 REMIX with MAF and possibly injectors should kick a stock car every time, especially a Stage 1 REMIX 5-MT. Now maybe we will see stock weight cars with a few mods fun consistantly in the mid-90s mph range in the quarter mile. eg33 engine development begins now.

After LAN installed and programmed the MAF and the huge injectors, he implied that the car was strong. I wonder if the car felt better from 5600 to redline?

What do you say Michael? Stage 1 REMIX programming with upgraded 'standardized' MAF and upgraded [affordable] injectors, for the masses?

Somebody pinch me!


Quote:
Originally Posted by longassname
I've made a nasty little discovery you won't be too happy to hear. Anyone that was paying attention to the stage III development thread want to guess what's responsible for that lean out above peak power at 5600ish rpms? I'm about to get into doing the final software for stage III so I'll have exact #'s for you soon to verify this (I've made some guesses and interpolations here and there in the prototype software)...but it seems the factory mass air meter actually maxes out in a stock svx. The afr plots go north above 5600 rpms because the maf meter is maxed out.
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  #44  
Old 05-16-2005, 02:04 PM
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Earthworm Earthworm is offline
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What about opening up a bypass pipe to divert air around the MAF sensor? Everything would need to be carefully recalculated (possibly run 2 meters to calibrate the readings from the meter with the diverter pipe).
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  #45  
Old 05-16-2005, 06:23 PM
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what some people do in the DSM world is they actually let unmetered air in a specific amount. (called a "hacked MAF") you then richen the Air/Fuel ratio a specific amount to compensate for that extra unmetered air. the problem some of the people have with this is that at idle, if its easier to pull the "unmetered" air then it is to get "metered" air, then you're idle and low rpm is way too rich, and runs badly. I think the way to get around this would be to instal and extra filter, such that there is "resistance" to pulling that air into the intake tract.

however, I think we may get better results just putting a very small resistor in line with the MAF wire. this would lower the voltage by a set amount (given the amperage stays the same, which it should) and would allow you to use the extra ability of the MAF, such that when it reads 5.12 volts, its sending 4.8 (since all the values are the same after 4.8 anyway)

^I'm not really thinking to well right now cause i'm extremely tired. check that and make sure i'm not too much of an idiot.
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