OT- Sad about War.

[Paisan]

Originally posted by Seraph



I WAS IN THE MIDDLE OF A FREEKING MINE FIELD. I've seen 2 year old orphans in the middle of winter in Europe thanks to some power hungry a-holes. I am pissed? Yeah. But my anger stops at some point. What do I do? I developed a database for UNHCR so that those hungry kids can eat. I made another database for UNHCR so that the people responsiable for the crimes can pay.

You were being paid to be in a mine field, you knew the risks going in. The people attacked on 9/11 did not. Period.

[Paisan]

They hate us because we aren't 3rd world countries lead by dictators who feed BS to their people through their media outlets proclaiming how "bad" we are. It's amazing how many of the people on this board are "Americans" yet love to bash America and our way of life.

Amazing, simply amazing.

-mike

[Seraph]

Originally posted by Paisan


You were being paid to be in a mine field, you knew the risks going in. The people attacked on 9/11 did not. Period.

I was not paid to be in the mind field. I was on a humanitarian and law project.

So there.

[Seraph]

Originally posted by Uncamitzi


The gulf war was started by Americans?..... (who invaded Kuwait?) Vietnam was started by Americans? uh... we (mistakenly) took that war over from the French.. As an American I have been welcomed in almost every country I've ever been in (although I was shot at in Vietnam and Cuba)... Americans are emulated by most other countries, it's a love hate relationship that I can put down to shear jealousy.... Sorry..

If you all dig a little deeper, you will see that it was the US ambassador to Kuwait that started the war. He told the Iraqi ambassador to Kuwait that if Iraq should invade, US will defend the country. A week later, you have saddam's troops in Kuwait City.

How's that for size?

L

Let me correct myself about America starting up wars: If they mind their own business, they will not be where they are. But than again, hunger for oil might put us back where we were.

[Aredubjay]

Boy-oh-boy, did I choose a good time to start back checking the Network, or what?

"I hate war. My wife Eleanore hates war. Even my little dog Fala hates war." These were the words of Franklin D. Roosevelt. He spoke them shortly after the attack at Pearl Harbor. The U.S. had decided to sit out the war and let Europe take care of itself. Imagine what would've happened if Japan had never brought the war to us. I dare say more countries in Europe would be speaking German as their primary language.

I hate war, also. I sicken at the thought of innocent lives being spent . . . ours and theirs. However, the innocents who are dying in Iraq at the hands of a power-hungry despot, if left alone, will continue to grow unless something is done, and, when he tires of killing his own, he'll find others to kill outside his realm, once he thinks he has an open door to do so. He's proven that he wants to be a conqueror. He blew it the first time, do you really think, if given space and time, he'll make the same mistake twice? Diplomatic means have been pursued and, I pray to God they will succeed, but, we can't wait too long. It's kind of like, when your parents are away and you decide to have a party at the house. In the middle of the party, your parents call and say they'll be home early. What would YOU do?

Cut off their money? We tried that. Who suffered? The Iraqi people, not the elite, well-fed upper echelon.

I certainly hope war does not come to pass. We could certainly stand down, bring everybody home and merely keep an eye on our own borders . . . keep our nose in our own business and just let the rest of the world fight it out. Actually, I'm all for that. But, then, I'm all for others, after their countries sit in smoldering ruins, not saying, "But why didn't those oil-hungry, war-mongering Americans help us?"

Golly -- I knew I shouldn't have read this thread.

Perhaps to lighten things up a bit, I wrote a response to comments made about the 9/11 tragedy, when we were told that "poop happens" and that "People like heroes but not nosey guys with big bombs. IMHO, that is the reason why more idiots are aiming their poop in our (notice our) backyard. " I think it's fitting in this thread, also.

I'd just want to say a couple of things in response to this last group of statements: First of all, I just want other people to keep their poop in their own back yards. Don't send your dogs to poop in mine. And, when YOUR dogs poop in your back yard, if you don't want me there, don't call me to come clean it up, and, if I do, don't sic your dog on me for coming over to do what you asked me to. And, finally, I don't want to worry about the dandelions in your back yard. I have my own dandelions to worry about. Sure, I'm concerned about your dandelions -- I know they're there, but, that shouldn't affect me unless your dandelions blow into my back yard. That's when I have to weed my back yard and then, call you to ask you to weed yours, so they don't blow into mine. That's all I'm going to say.

[Uncamitzi]

Originally posted by Seraph



If you all dig a little deeper, you will see that it was the US ambassador to Kuwait that started the war. He told the Iraqi ambassador to Kuwait that if Iraq should invade, US will defend the country. A week later, you have saddam's troops in Kuwait City.

How's that for size?

L

Let me correct myself about America starting up wars: If they mind their own business, they will not be where they are. But than again, hunger for oil might put us back where we were.

Not wanting to sound dumb... but.. Supposing that the U.S. Ambassador to Kuwait did say..." Don't invade Kuwait or we will help them". (Because they DID ask for our help) And then the idiots invade Kuwait... How does that mean the U.S. started the war. If I remember right..(and I do) During the build up that was call "Desert Shield" we repeatedly told Sadman to get out of Kuwait.. or we would help Kuwait regain it's land... He didn’t and we did... we would have finished too if we hadn't been mindful of the death and destruction that would have happened to innocent people had we invaded Baghdad....

[Aredubjay]

Originally posted by Uncamitzi


we repeatedly told Sadman to get out of Kuwait..

I prefer the moniker, "Sodamn Insane."

[Paisan]

Originally posted by Seraph


I was not paid to be in the mind field. I was on a humanitarian and law project.

So there.

Either way you knew the terrirtory when you went there, you did not go to work one morning and have 9/11 happen.

-mike

[shoden]

Originally posted by Seraph



If you all dig a little deeper, you will see that it was the US ambassador to Kuwait that started the war. He told the Iraqi ambassador to Kuwait that if Iraq should invade, US will defend the country. A week later, you have saddam's troops in Kuwait City.

Lwin is correct, but he left out a key word. It should have read "He told the Iraqi ambassador to Kuwait that if Iraq should invade, US will not defend the country."

Still, that doesn't justify Iraq's invasion of Kuwait, or really justify saying that the US started that war. For example, if I tell Paisan that I'm not going to do anything if he punches Seraph in the face, and then Paisan goes ahead and does it, is it my fault? Paisan still had the choice to not do it...

[Trevor]

Let us hope that the showing of strength does some good as is the obvious intention. Otherwise thank goodness we have policemen in the form of the UK and US.

It is possible that the US is interested in oil but it not good oil in the hands of a dictator. Those in doubt regarding the humanitarian aspect of US and UK policy should reflect on the manner in which Japan and West Germany were treated after THE war.

[Seraph]

Originally posted by shoden


Lwin is correct, but he left out a key word. It should have read "He told the Iraqi ambassador to Kuwait that if Iraq should invade, US will not defend the country."

Still, that doesn't justify Iraq's invasion of Kuwait, or really justify saying that the US started that war. For example, if I tell Paisan that I'm not going to do anything if he punches Seraph in the face, and then Paisan goes ahead and does it, is it my fault? Paisan still had the choice to not do it...

Shane,

That's the funniest comment I've seen. Good job!!! I am still laughing.

Lwin

[sfsvx]

Originally posted by blackbolt94red
With statements like "you should shut the fawk up" do you wonder why 85% of the Third World can't stand Americans?

85% of the Third World would DIE to become Americans. In fact, a goodly number of those poor souls risk their lives and a portion of those do die trying to get here.

Anybody ever hear of someone risking their life to get to France (for that matter, anyone ever hear of a Frenchman risking his life for anything except being the first in line to surrender to the Germans?)? Notice the Cuban boat people head north, not south, or west, or even east to those idyllic Carribbean islands?

I have no objection to Americans disagreeing with what our government does. I do believe that, if they disagree, they should DO something, not just sit and *****.

Being a citizen of a country (ANY country) is a lot like any other relationship - there are good times and bad times, and once in a while we've got to struggle and grit our teeth to make it through the bad. Anyone who's spent 20+ years enjoying the benefits this country has to offer, and then decides that one bad patch is cause enough to bail out and leave, is a weenie.

So there.

My apologies for the cheap shot at the French, it was just too good to pass up.

[JeffN]

Thanks you for that Trev, and a Kiwi no less.

How many Corollas does Japan owe us now? And I'm due at least a few replacement M3's for mine for war rebuilding retribution. My father is now sorry when he sees what's happened in the 60 years after wading over floating MArines to help take Taroa. A sorry statement to the dumbing down of America. THAT's our worst feature-last or almost in popular endeavors of the brain. DEATH to MTV!!!

And someone recently told me the Cuban national anthem is 'Row row row your Boat...'

[LarryIII]

Originally posted by Paisan
Until you see a plane smack in to the WTC with your own 2 eyes instead of the nice pretty picket fences of Kanasas you should shut the fawk up. There is nothing you could tell me that would change my mind that evil leaders like osama and saddam should be removed with whatever means necessary. I got whacked in the head with blinds and spreadsheets from WTC while walking home, I had friends and collegues killed on 9/11. If us going into iraq and showing them that we aren't gonna put up with their BS saves 1 civilian american life on US soil in the future it is worth it to me.

-mike

Mike,

I grew up on 47th street & 10th Ave. (Hell's Kitchen). Don't catergorize everyone as having white picket fences in Kansas because they don't hold the same views as you. . The morning the planes hit the WTC Rosie's niece was 3.5 blocks away working for Smith-Barney. She was due to meet her dad (Rosie's brother) and have lunch with him in Windows on the World. Obviously that did not happen. Eleven guys in our sister company never got off the 89th floor of the north tower. The morning the planes hit the towers I saw it on a TV at DuPont in Wilm., DE. I kept thinking "You f'd over the wrong guys, now you're really gonna' pay." I still feel that way.

Maybe my original post wasn't clear so I'll try to make my thoughts and feelings more succint, Here goes:

I don't think using our military might is the best way to get rid of Sadam Hussein & his regime. I don't think our military is the right tool to use. It's too big a tool. It's like using a jackhammer when you need an xacto knife. In the long run it does more harm than good.

Larry III

about two months ago, my father was inspired to put his thoughts on war down on paper. he is an accomplished thinker and anti-war advocate. he spent a month whittling his essay down to a managable size and began distributing it around the area.

he took out a full-page ad in the local newspaper and filled the page up with his essay. he paid to have the essay inserted into the paper as a flyer. he made enormous enlargements of the essay and hung them in the window of his storefront for all to read.

a liberal-oriented website published the essay on the internet. it's really quite good and i'm extremely proud of him for accomplishing so much with his will. i hope some of you will read it and pass it on to friends who may not frequent this board..

http://www.yourmailinglistprovider.c...php?haney+1435

-adam