Cranks -- No fuel, no spark?

[SVXRide]

You'll also want to check the temp sensor. For some strange reason, it will also prevent the engine from starting when it goes bad. When you said you checked the cam and crank sensors, just how did you check them? Ideally, you need a scope to check them out.

-Bill

[Jonnycash]

Originally Posted by SVXRide

You'll also want to check the temp sensor. For some strange reason, it will also prevent the engine from starting when it goes bad. When you said you checked the cam and crank sensors, just how did you check them? Ideally, you need a scope to check them out.

-Bill

I checked the camand crank sensors with an ohm meter, an they were within the spec.
I'll check the temp sensor. Whats the best way to check it?

[SVXRide]

Originally Posted by Jonnycash

I checked the camand crank sensors with an ohm meter, an they were within the spec.
I'll check the temp sensor. Whats the best way to check it?

I believe that resistance alone isn't enough for the cam and crank sensors...
-Bill

[Jonnycash]

Originally Posted by SVXRide

I believe that resistance alone isn't enough for the cam and crank sensors...
-Bill

I see. I do not have access to a scope, and those are expensive parts to just throw at it.
Would either one affect the fuel pump?
I don't even get the initial prime.

[SoCal LS-L]

When I checked my cam and crank sensors, I took them off and read the voltage jump when I passed a metal object in front of the magnet.

If your fuel pump doesnt even prime, you have a power supply issue, since you mentioned that spark is absent as well. The manual says to check the ECU power supply, which could be that fusible link I suggested (you said all the fuses were good right?). The fusible links are in the engine bay fuse box, one up top and the rest I think are underneath, start there!

[Trevor]

Originally Posted by Jonnycash

I see. I do not have access to a scope, and those are expensive parts to just throw at it.
Would either one affect the fuel pump?
I don't even get the initial prime.

I regret that I have not kept up with this thread, as I have had to spend an awful lot of time on another very curly one.

I think that you can be reasonably confident that the sensors are OK as a result of the resistance check. The fusible link must be OK because items protected by it are operating. On a logical basis, the important clues are the failure of both the pump and spark. But you must accept, as I have discovered, and impossible as it seems, two separate faults can sometimes occur simultaneously. At the moment I am checking the wiring diagrams.

The igniter could be suspect, except that the switching of each plug/coil is controlled separately and individually from the TCU, and the failure of switching to more than one plug is very unlikely. What is more there is no association with the fuel system.

Check that with the ignition on, there is voltage at the output from the fuel pump relay. This relay is located under the dash, on the drivers side, close to the main relay. There should be battery voltage on pin 4 and the blue wire. A sharp pin or needle through the insulation, is a good way of making contact.

Horrible as it may seem, you must suspect the ECU, but in this regard give the plug connections a good in and out, in the hope of a dirty connection.

This is another curly one. But don't despair.

[Jonnycash]

Originally Posted by SoCal LS-L

When I checked my cam and crank sensors, I took them off and read the voltage jump when I passed a metal object in front of the magnet.

If your fuel pump doesnt even prime, you have a power supply issue, since you mentioned that spark is absent as well. The manual says to check the ECU power supply, which could be that fusible link I suggested (you said all the fuses were good right?). The fusible links are in the engine bay fuse box, one up top and the rest I think are underneath, start there!

All fuses are good... double checked them to be sure.
I have been searching for fusable links.
I may be looking for the wrong thing... The fusable links I am used to are a high carbon wire, and I usually tug on them a bit and look for stretched insulation. This is my first subaru, so maybe they look different???

[SoCal LS-L]

If you check the service manual you downloaded, theres a .pdf titled "Test w/o codes". Look at this toward the bottom and theres a spreadsheet that lists in numerical order things to check by symptom. For a no start, and which would affect fuel AND spark, the number one thing down the list is the power supply to the ECU. The wiring is complicated, but I can gather to check the fusible links and a few fuses in the box under the dash (possibly 14,15, and 16).

There service manual states the fusible links are in the engine bay fuse box, theres one up top, the rest I assume are inside the box. They look like heavy gauge wire with normal insulation if I recall correctly.

[Jonnycash]

[QUOTE=Trevor;611732]

Horrible as it may seem, you must suspect the ECU, but in this regard give the plug connections a good in and out, in the hope of a dirty connection.
QUOTE]

I have a known good ecu. I tried plugging it in, and it made no difference.
So far I have eliminated:
ECU - Main Relay - Fuses - cam & crank sensors - timng belt
Going to try and track down those fusable links down and check them.

[oab_au]

[QUOTE=Jonnycash;611737][QUOTE=Trevor;611732]

Horrible as it may seem, you must suspect the ECU, but in this regard give the plug connections a good in and out, in the hope of a dirty connection.
QUOTE]

I have a known good ecu. I tried plugging it in, and it made no difference.
So far I have eliminated:
ECU - Main Relay - Fuses - cam & crank sensors - timng belt
Going to try and track down those fusable links down and check them.[/QUOTE]

The 'fuseable links' that you are looking for are the Slow Blow Fuses, they are in the under hood fuse panel. They are small square boxs that you can see the link inside them through the top. Not the best pic, but if you expand the pic, you can see two along the top and three below them.

[IMG]

[/IMG]

Harvey.

[Jonnycash]

I saw those clear top boxes. Nothing looks burned in any of those. Well, atleaste I can stop looking for the wire type links.

[SoCal LS-L]

Ok, try this, its quick. Go under your dash, pull fuse #16, and replace it with another 15 amp.. no matter if it looks good or not. Its the bottom row, 2nd from the left. According to the manual, its for the ignition system and is also connected to the fuel pump relay.

[Jonnycash]

Originally Posted by SoCal LS-L

Ok, try this, its quick. Go under your dash, pull fuse #16, and replace it with another 15 amp.. no matter if it looks good or not. Its the bottom row, 2nd from the left. According to the manual, its for the ignition system and is also connected to the fuel pump relay.

I will do that, but I checked the fuses with a test light... not visually.
I have a mechanic freind of mine stopping by tonight to go over this car with me. He has about 25 years experience, so hopefully he will be able to figure something out. I appreciate all the time you guys have devoted to helping me, and I will keep you posted on it.

[Trevor]

[QUOTE=oab_au;611740][QUOTE=Jonnycash;611737]

Originally Posted by Trevor

Horrible as it may seem, you must suspect the ECU, but in this regard give the plug connections a good in and out, in the hope of a dirty connection.
QUOTE]

I have a known good ecu. I tried plugging it in, and it made no difference.
So far I have eliminated:
ECU - Main Relay - Fuses - cam & crank sensors - timng belt
Going to try and track down those fusable links down and check them.[/QUOTE]

The 'fuseable links' that you are looking for are the Slow Blow Fuses, they are in the under hood fuse panel. They are small square boxs that you can see the link inside them through the top. Not the best pic, but if you expand the pic, you can see two along the top and three below them.

Harvey.

The fusible link and SBF's will not be open.

Refer post #5 ---Everything seems to be working as far accessories. Radio, windows, wipers, and lights are all working.

[SoCal LS-L]

[QUOTE=Trevor;611809][QUOTE=oab_au;611740]

Originally Posted by Jonnycash

The fusible link and SBF's will not be open.

Refer post #5 ---Everything seems to be working as far accessories. Radio, windows, wipers, and lights are all working.

Can you think of what would kill both spark and fuel delivery? My first guess is power supply, maybe to the ECU, where else should he check?